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	<title>
	Comments on: NPR Segment on Changes at Exodus International	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/06/npr-segment-on-changes-at-exodus-international/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:00:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/06/npr-segment-on-changes-at-exodus-international/#comment-86196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11726#comment-86196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It the MSNBC interview, Alan once again dodges the real question people are asking.  It&#039;s not &quot;do gay people lose 100% of their SSA?&quot;  It&#039;s not &quot;are they able to live above their temptations?&quot;  We are clear about those things.



We already know that 99.9% don&#039;t lose their &quot;SSA&quot; entirely.  Exodus has all along said &quot;No, they continue to struggle&quot;.  But that&#039;s not a change in Exodus&#039; message.  It&#039;s what they have been saying for decades.  We&#039;re asking about actual sexual orientation change from homosexual to heterosexual.  How often does that happen?  



Less &quot;SSA&quot; is not heterosexuality.  Not acting on &quot;SSA&quot; is not heterosexuality.  Celibacy is not heterosexuality.  Having attractions to both sexes (as Alan Chambers and Randy Thomas admit they have) is not heterosexuality.  



Why won&#039;t Alan and Exodus give a straight answer to the real question:  &quot;What percentage of Exodus clients become heterosexual -- no longer homosexual -- in their primary attractions?&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It the MSNBC interview, Alan once again dodges the real question people are asking.  It&#8217;s not &#8220;do gay people lose 100% of their SSA?&#8221;  It&#8217;s not &#8220;are they able to live above their temptations?&#8221;  We are clear about those things.</p>
<p>We already know that 99.9% don&#8217;t lose their &#8220;SSA&#8221; entirely.  Exodus has all along said &#8220;No, they continue to struggle&#8221;.  But that&#8217;s not a change in Exodus&#8217; message.  It&#8217;s what they have been saying for decades.  We&#8217;re asking about actual sexual orientation change from homosexual to heterosexual.  How often does that happen?  </p>
<p>Less &#8220;SSA&#8221; is not heterosexuality.  Not acting on &#8220;SSA&#8221; is not heterosexuality.  Celibacy is not heterosexuality.  Having attractions to both sexes (as Alan Chambers and Randy Thomas admit they have) is not heterosexuality.  </p>
<p>Why won&#8217;t Alan and Exodus give a straight answer to the real question:  &#8220;What percentage of Exodus clients become heterosexual &#8212; no longer homosexual &#8212; in their primary attractions?&#8221;</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/06/npr-segment-on-changes-at-exodus-international/#comment-86201</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11726#comment-86201</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;We&#039;ve seen Chambers&#039;s efforts to present a more open and friendly Exodus to the world &#8212; including LGBT Christians &#8212; beginning with his appearance at the Gay Christian Network conference in January. Since then, we&#039;ve seen Exodus distance itself increasingly from the claims of reparative and conversion therapy...

 

While Exodus&#039;s rhetoric has been hazy at best over the past few years, there&#039;s no question that it has now made a very clear and public break with the idea of sexual orientation change efforts, or SOCE. None of Exodus&#039;s member ministries, says Alan Chambers, will be allowed to practice reparative therapy. Exodus &quot;isn&#039;t in the SOCE business,&quot; he clarified in an email to XGW.&quot; ~ Dave Rattigan, Ex-gay Watch



http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2012/07/changes-at-exodus-reactions/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We&#8217;ve seen Chambers&#8217;s efforts to present a more open and friendly Exodus to the world &#8212; including LGBT Christians &#8212; beginning with his appearance at the Gay Christian Network conference in January. Since then, we&#8217;ve seen Exodus distance itself increasingly from the claims of reparative and conversion therapy&#8230;</p>
<p>While Exodus&#8217;s rhetoric has been hazy at best over the past few years, there&#8217;s no question that it has now made a very clear and public break with the idea of sexual orientation change efforts, or SOCE. None of Exodus&#8217;s member ministries, says Alan Chambers, will be allowed to practice reparative therapy. Exodus &#8220;isn&#8217;t in the SOCE business,&#8221; he clarified in an email to XGW.&#8221; ~ Dave Rattigan, Ex-gay Watch</p>
<p><a href="http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2012/07/changes-at-exodus-reactions/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2012/07/changes-at-exodus-reactions/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: neal lindberg		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/06/npr-segment-on-changes-at-exodus-international/#comment-86200</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neal lindberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11726#comment-86200</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s more accurate to say that homosexuality has been made to be the filthiest of all SEXUAL sins.  To a degree, there is a hierarchy of sins, like Gagnon said, stealing a pen from the office is not the same as Hitler exterminating millions of Jews.  



I believe that homosexuality is a sin in practice, not in orientation b/c I believe that God had a purpose when He created man, woman, and the union of marriage.  I can understand the where the zeal of conservative Christians who &quot;go all OCD&quot; on gay rights issues come from, I really do.

However, the harm that comes from the homosexual sin in practice is too subtle for the secular world to see.  Even with my conservative belief, I fail to see the IMMEDIATE negative consequences of a committed, monogamous lesbian/gay relationship.  

I&#039;m sure that the vast majority of non-Christians (humanists/atheists/agnostics/other religions) can agree that offenses like murder, theft/robbery, racism, human trafficking, rape, child abuse, fraud/deception, etc are wrong because in these cases it is IMMEDIATELY VERY VERY ULTRA CLEAR that somebody else is gonna get hurt.  However, indulged homosexual thoughts, desires, and behaviours....not very clear from the get go. It&#039;s one of those sins where you just have to be religious in order for you to see it as a sin, there&#039;s no other way, really.  Outside of the religious system, it&#039;s very difficult to build an argument against gay marriage, sorry.



So, I mean, the secular world&#039;s staunch support of gay marriage/homosexuality is not very surprising at all.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s more accurate to say that homosexuality has been made to be the filthiest of all SEXUAL sins.  To a degree, there is a hierarchy of sins, like Gagnon said, stealing a pen from the office is not the same as Hitler exterminating millions of Jews.  </p>
<p>I believe that homosexuality is a sin in practice, not in orientation b/c I believe that God had a purpose when He created man, woman, and the union of marriage.  I can understand the where the zeal of conservative Christians who &#8220;go all OCD&#8221; on gay rights issues come from, I really do.</p>
<p>However, the harm that comes from the homosexual sin in practice is too subtle for the secular world to see.  Even with my conservative belief, I fail to see the IMMEDIATE negative consequences of a committed, monogamous lesbian/gay relationship.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that the vast majority of non-Christians (humanists/atheists/agnostics/other religions) can agree that offenses like murder, theft/robbery, racism, human trafficking, rape, child abuse, fraud/deception, etc are wrong because in these cases it is IMMEDIATELY VERY VERY ULTRA CLEAR that somebody else is gonna get hurt.  However, indulged homosexual thoughts, desires, and behaviours&#8230;.not very clear from the get go. It&#8217;s one of those sins where you just have to be religious in order for you to see it as a sin, there&#8217;s no other way, really.  Outside of the religious system, it&#8217;s very difficult to build an argument against gay marriage, sorry.</p>
<p>So, I mean, the secular world&#8217;s staunch support of gay marriage/homosexuality is not very surprising at all.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/06/npr-segment-on-changes-at-exodus-international/#comment-86197</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11726#comment-86197</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let me remind commenters that ad hominem attacks, slander, and personal gossip are not permitted and that such comments are subject to removal. I get a fair number of them directed at me and some I let stand and some I don&#039;t. A recent comment was directed at someone else and after it was pointed out to me, I removed it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me remind commenters that ad hominem attacks, slander, and personal gossip are not permitted and that such comments are subject to removal. I get a fair number of them directed at me and some I let stand and some I don&#8217;t. A recent comment was directed at someone else and after it was pointed out to me, I removed it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/06/npr-segment-on-changes-at-exodus-international/#comment-86178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11726#comment-86178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the link.  



Given the title and the topic, I imagine Alan was talking about marriage laws that excluded gays from marrying.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link.  </p>
<p>Given the title and the topic, I imagine Alan was talking about marriage laws that excluded gays from marrying.</p>
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