Hi Ann, I think the stance most people take who pursue congruence is that they would not deny any change in their inner world that took place but they are not seeking it or using change as an indicator of their holiness, stance before God, level of effort to live a congruent life, etc.

Straight conservative pastor checking in here. I have followed what you and your ministry have been doing for quite some time .. I even recall some conversations on Bridges Across (though I think I joined that forum after those conversations had taken place). I was also at the GCN conference this last January and listend to that entire conversation.

Now to the point .. I think William’s questions deserve some real answers. And I think Iain’s posts deserve a really thoughtful and compassionate and humble response. And while I am pleased with what Michael Bussee seems to think you are saying I would like to hear it directly from you. And I would like to hear these kinds of answers, not just here, but everywhere .. in a very public way.

If Exodus has misled people (and I believe it has) and if Exodus has harmed people (either intentionally or not) .. and if Exodus has put out an theology/ideology (which it no longer endorses) then Exodus needs to repent. And they need to repent publically and be very specific about what they are repenting of. And repentance does not sound like “we were misunderstood” or “we didn’t do those things”. Repentance is where you state exactly what you did that was wrong and what you are going to do in the future to correct that..

Without repentance there can be no forgiveness. That is a biblical principle. Without repentance there can be no trust. And, as I am sure you are aware, trust will not come easily. It does not necessarily follow on the heels of repentence. It takes time. .. time to see if the repentance is real. And I would remind you that the root meaning of repentance is a change of direction.

-Repentance (change of direction) starts to look real when public apologies are made.

-Repentance (change of direction) starts to look real when you recall books authored by you that say that to identify as gay is as sinful as having promiscuous sex.

-Repentance (change of direction) starts to look real when you map out a clear path for the future for your organization. (Some examples: How does Exodus respond to those who do not share its sexual morality ethic? What does Exodus believe is required to be a Christian .. committment to Exodus ideology on identity and morals .. or faith in and total submission to Christ .)

– Repentance (change of direction) starts to look real when you screen your church associations and referrals to match that new direction and path.

I appreciate the courageous steps you are taking . But as an international organization who has made certain claims for years .. its just not good enough to claim you were misunderstood on some issues. As an international organization giving specific advice to churches around the world its your job to communicate well and have clarity in mission, purpose and direction. You are IMO going to need to ‘fess up to some things and make amends and not hide behind excuses.

I pray that God continues to guide you in this direction and grants you the courage to do what needs to be done.

Blessings,

Dave

I also think this split within Exodus comes down to 2 basic questions:

(1) PSYCHOLOGY: Do people change their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual through these programs?

(2) THEOLOGY: Can a homosexual Christian lose their salvation if they accept a “gay identity” or a “gay lifestyle”?

The groups that have left (including Frank Worthen’s) would say “Yes” to both questions. Alan Chambers seems to be saying, “No” to both.

I agree with him.

“As someone who was part of the ex-gay world, who was one who “went back to the lifestyle,” and “didn’t try hard enough,” I want nothing more than to hear them say, “look, we screwed up. And we’re sorry.”

So would an ever-growing number of Exodus drop-outs, cast-offs and “ex-gay” survivors. Alan Chambers posted (above) that he accepts that the burden is on Exodus. — and has promised “proof, amends and changes”. I hope he means it.

(1) Why did you have confusing statements supporting orientation change on your site in the first place?

(2) Given the amount of adverse criticism that those statements received over the years, it must have been obvious long ago that they were confusing, so why did you keep them on for so long?

(3) “I guess I would simply say that my point in reiterating what Randy said was to agree that those things haven’t ever been our number one objective or goal and why I said, but that the world didn’t know it.” If that is really so, are you seriously saying that it has taken you all this time to twig that the world didn’t know it? Or if you did realise it before, why is it only now that you are trying to correct the misapprehension?

I was a miscarriage of the ex-gay movement. The messages I absorbed, whether real or imagined, became too toxic for me to handle. When it finally became a choice between being gay or being dead, I chose to be gay. I left the movement 5 years ago, a teenager still in the clutches of ex-gay ideology, but knowing that if I didn’t get out, I may very well die.

That shame the ex-gay world instills in you stays with you. It cuts you deep, like a gutted fish. It gets under your skin, like a hook, and getting it out can do horrible damage, and be terribly painful. Now, after lots of drugs, drinking, and literally hundreds of scars on my body, and lots of prayers, I’m finally beginning to understand that when Jesus said “whosoever”, he really meant whosoever, even the ex-gay miscarriages like myself. (for the record, I am not blaming Exodus or anyone else for the bad choices I made as I came out of the ex-gay world, they were merely the pain-generator.)

It hurts to hear Alan say that the messages that so deeply hurt me never existed at all. It hurts to hear him say, “those lies we told you that made you implode and took five years of your life . . . we never believed what we told you.”

That’s hard to handle. As someone who was part of the ex-gay world, who was one who “went back to the lifestyle,” and “didn’t try hard enough,” I want nothing more than to hear them say, “look, we screwed up. And we’re sorry.”

And I would accept that. They are human. Humans make mistakes. I get that.

But they are not owning up to their humanity, and that hurts.

“Those without links appear to have no website. A few of these are of particular note. The previously mentioned Desert Stream Ministries is a major ex-gay ministry of many years. First Stone is almost as old as Exodus, and New Hope Ministries is led by Frank Worthen, sometimes called the father of ex-gay ministries and an Exodus co-founder. And perhaps most amazing of all, Exchange Ministries, located in the same city as Exodus, was the ministry where Chambers got his start.

Update: Exodus contacted us just after posting with some additional information and the list has been updated accordingly. In their estimation, 11 ministries have left directly due to recent changes at Exodus. As our information came directly from Exodus’ own website, any errors are theirs. So the ministries updated as having closed in 2009 or 2010 were still listed as active on the Exodus site in April of 2011 and therefore counted in our original review.” ~ David Roberts

http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2012/06/exodus-international-has-lost-twenty-ministries/

@Karen K – You are right, we did champion RT causes, support and promote NARTH, etc. We had confusing statements supporting orientation change on our site. I guess I would simply say that my point in reiterating what Randy said was to agree that those things haven’t ever been our number one objective or goal and why I said, but that the world didn’t know it. I am owning the fact that we failed here. I tend to say most everything I think. Maybe I should simply say, “We supported these efforts and don’t any longer. There has been a change in our beliefs about orientation change focused therapy and we don’t believe it’s effective.” I value the developmental information but, as Warren once said to me, “The developmental model fits everyone.” I agree that developmental issues are a part of every human’s story.

@Richard Willmer: We did quickly lend our voice to denouncing the anti-homosexuality bill and our letter to President Musanavi was read before Ugandan Parliament and helped to stall the bill that they mistakenly said we supported.

@Emily & Straight Grandmother: I did not testify before congress on hate crimes but I did meet with a number of congressional leaders stating that I did not see the value of that legislation. Though I do not have any desire to speak into legislative issues today, and have not for over 4 years, I still think what we have on the books is sufficient. But, if hate crimes legislation passes so be it. I think the Christian community would do well to acknowledge that we share in the reason for the perceived necessity of such a bill and could do a lot to treat and speak of our neighbor the way we’d like to be treated and spoken of.

@Michael: Thanks for your encouragement. I spoke of you in an interview today and noted my appreciation for you and acknowledged your original intent in the collaborative creation of Exodus.

What did I miss from the comments directed toward me?