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	Comments on: Getting Jefferson Right: When did Jefferson question the Trinity?	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-86405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11505#comment-86405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-77210&quot;&gt;Tom Van Dyke&lt;/a&gt;.

Tom - I leave the rest where it is. My only comment is that the standards I and others use to examine Barton&#039;s work is hardly bonecrushing. For instance, it is not too much to ask for Barton to distinguish between giving a one time donation to a Bible society and being the founder of that bible society, is it?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-77210">Tom Van Dyke</a>.</p>
<p>Tom &#8211; I leave the rest where it is. My only comment is that the standards I and others use to examine Barton&#8217;s work is hardly bonecrushing. For instance, it is not too much to ask for Barton to distinguish between giving a one time donation to a Bible society and being the founder of that bible society, is it?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-60939</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 00:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11505#comment-60939</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s a useful correction, Warren, but I also think it&#039;s an argument about the footnotes.  It simply doesn&#039;t move my meter much, certainly not as much as Jefferson giving the $50 in the first place, which would come as a surprise to those with the &#039;common knowledge&#039; that Jefferson was a deist.



Google Jefferson and &quot;deist&quot; and see the world of ignorance out there on the anti-Barton side for yrself!



Look, Barton&#039;s errors are bizarre.  I&#039;ve never seen anything like it.  Still, there&#039;s usually a germ of truth in there that&#039;s interesting, and since my own approach to truth is not adversarial, I&#039;m willing to see where these things lead.



For instance, the thing with the Kaskaskia Indians, if nothing else, seems to be the first &quot;faith-based initiative.&quot;  Jefferson&#039;s &quot;Bible&quot; does contain the second Coming.  I find all that interesting.  In our present discussion, my careful reading of Jefferson&#039;s 1788 letter to Dirieux has him not quite decided that the Trinity is a fiction.  



Whereas by 1823, he&#039;s analysed John 1 and decided that &quot;the word made flesh&quot; of John 1 is a mistranslation of &quot;logos.&quot;  Now, this is an anti-Trinitarian tract!



http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/53/Letter_from_Thomas_Jefferson_to_John_Adams_1.html



As always, best regards.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a useful correction, Warren, but I also think it&#8217;s an argument about the footnotes.  It simply doesn&#8217;t move my meter much, certainly not as much as Jefferson giving the $50 in the first place, which would come as a surprise to those with the &#8216;common knowledge&#8217; that Jefferson was a deist.</p>
<p>Google Jefferson and &#8220;deist&#8221; and see the world of ignorance out there on the anti-Barton side for yrself!</p>
<p>Look, Barton&#8217;s errors are bizarre.  I&#8217;ve never seen anything like it.  Still, there&#8217;s usually a germ of truth in there that&#8217;s interesting, and since my own approach to truth is not adversarial, I&#8217;m willing to see where these things lead.</p>
<p>For instance, the thing with the Kaskaskia Indians, if nothing else, seems to be the first &#8220;faith-based initiative.&#8221;  Jefferson&#8217;s &#8220;Bible&#8221; does contain the second Coming.  I find all that interesting.  In our present discussion, my careful reading of Jefferson&#8217;s 1788 letter to Dirieux has him not quite decided that the Trinity is a fiction.  </p>
<p>Whereas by 1823, he&#8217;s analysed John 1 and decided that &#8220;the word made flesh&#8221; of John 1 is a mistranslation of &#8220;logos.&#8221;  Now, this is an anti-Trinitarian tract!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/53/Letter_from_Thomas_Jefferson_to_John_Adams_1.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/53/Letter_from_Thomas_Jefferson_to_John_Adams_1.html</a></p>
<p>As always, best regards.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-60938</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 23:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11505#comment-60938</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-60937&quot;&gt;Tom Van Dyke&lt;/a&gt;.

Tom - I leave the rest where it is. My only comment is that the standards I and others use to examine Barton&#039;s work is hardly bonecrushing. For instance, it is not too much to ask for Barton to distinguish between giving a one time donation to a Bible society and being the founder of that bible society, is it?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-60937">Tom Van Dyke</a>.</p>
<p>Tom &#8211; I leave the rest where it is. My only comment is that the standards I and others use to examine Barton&#8217;s work is hardly bonecrushing. For instance, it is not too much to ask for Barton to distinguish between giving a one time donation to a Bible society and being the founder of that bible society, is it?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-60937</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 21:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11505#comment-60937</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Warren, I strongly disagree with your use of &quot;anti-Trinitarian&quot; and &quot;rejected&quot; here for reasons given, although they easily apply to Jefferson&#039;s post-presidential writings---although I think their importance is highly exaggerated, as any ex-President&#039;s babblings are.



I look forward to reading more excerpts that I find compelling enough to subject myself to reading a book-length rebuttal of David Barton, whose &quot;work&quot; I don&#039;t give a hang about in the first place.  So far, I&#039;m not feeling sufficiently compelled, if I may attempt a delicate reply.



Rest assured, Warren, that I don&#039;t troll your blog looking to start up with you.  Your posts here are often linked by my co-blogger Jonathan Rowe over @



http://americancreation.blogspot.com/



I examine your interesting claims and report my findings in our comments sections.  Since the results are in my comptr&#039;s clipboard, I reprint them here as well.  I&#039;ve upheld the majority of your objections, but have tended to report only the ones I think should be overruled.  I&#039;m sorry if I give the impression I&#039;m highly critical of your work.  On balance, I&#039;m highly in agreement with it.



But  I believe Barton&#039;s critics have too free a hand, are received as uncritically by his enemies as he is by his fans, and often do not hold themselves to the same bonecrushing standard they apply to him.  &lt;i&gt;Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?&lt;i&gt;  Moi, I&#039;m afraid.  Being me is a dirty job, but somebody&#039;s got to do it.  Cheers, my friend.



;-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren, I strongly disagree with your use of &#8220;anti-Trinitarian&#8221; and &#8220;rejected&#8221; here for reasons given, although they easily apply to Jefferson&#8217;s post-presidential writings&#8212;although I think their importance is highly exaggerated, as any ex-President&#8217;s babblings are.</p>
<p>I look forward to reading more excerpts that I find compelling enough to subject myself to reading a book-length rebuttal of David Barton, whose &#8220;work&#8221; I don&#8217;t give a hang about in the first place.  So far, I&#8217;m not feeling sufficiently compelled, if I may attempt a delicate reply.</p>
<p>Rest assured, Warren, that I don&#8217;t troll your blog looking to start up with you.  Your posts here are often linked by my co-blogger Jonathan Rowe over @</p>
<p><a href="http://americancreation.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://americancreation.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>I examine your interesting claims and report my findings in our comments sections.  Since the results are in my comptr&#8217;s clipboard, I reprint them here as well.  I&#8217;ve upheld the majority of your objections, but have tended to report only the ones I think should be overruled.  I&#8217;m sorry if I give the impression I&#8217;m highly critical of your work.  On balance, I&#8217;m highly in agreement with it.</p>
<p>But  I believe Barton&#8217;s critics have too free a hand, are received as uncritically by his enemies as he is by his fans, and often do not hold themselves to the same bonecrushing standard they apply to him.  <i>Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?</i><i>  Moi, I&#8217;m afraid.  Being me is a dirty job, but somebody&#8217;s got to do it.  Cheers, my friend.</p>
<p>😉</i></p>
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			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/05/08/getting-jefferson-right-when-did-jefferson-question-the-trinity/#comment-77213</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 20:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11505#comment-77213</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s a useful correction, Warren, but I also think it&#039;s an argument about the footnotes.  It simply doesn&#039;t move my meter much, certainly not as much as Jefferson giving the $50 in the first place, which would come as a surprise to those with the &#039;common knowledge&#039; that Jefferson was a deist.



Google Jefferson and &quot;deist&quot; and see the world of ignorance out there on the anti-Barton side for yrself!



Look, Barton&#039;s errors are bizarre.  I&#039;ve never seen anything like it.  Still, there&#039;s usually a germ of truth in there that&#039;s interesting, and since my own approach to truth is not adversarial, I&#039;m willing to see where these things lead.



For instance, the thing with the Kaskaskia Indians, if nothing else, seems to be the first &quot;faith-based initiative.&quot;  Jefferson&#039;s &quot;Bible&quot; does contain the second Coming.  I find all that interesting.  In our present discussion, my careful reading of Jefferson&#039;s 1788 letter to Dirieux has him not quite decided that the Trinity is a fiction.  



Whereas by 1823, he&#039;s analysed John 1 and decided that &quot;the word made flesh&quot; of John 1 is a mistranslation of &quot;logos.&quot;  Now, this is an anti-Trinitarian tract!



http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/53/Letter_from_Thomas_Jefferson_to_John_Adams_1.html



As always, best regards.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a useful correction, Warren, but I also think it&#8217;s an argument about the footnotes.  It simply doesn&#8217;t move my meter much, certainly not as much as Jefferson giving the $50 in the first place, which would come as a surprise to those with the &#8216;common knowledge&#8217; that Jefferson was a deist.</p>
<p>Google Jefferson and &#8220;deist&#8221; and see the world of ignorance out there on the anti-Barton side for yrself!</p>
<p>Look, Barton&#8217;s errors are bizarre.  I&#8217;ve never seen anything like it.  Still, there&#8217;s usually a germ of truth in there that&#8217;s interesting, and since my own approach to truth is not adversarial, I&#8217;m willing to see where these things lead.</p>
<p>For instance, the thing with the Kaskaskia Indians, if nothing else, seems to be the first &#8220;faith-based initiative.&#8221;  Jefferson&#8217;s &#8220;Bible&#8221; does contain the second Coming.  I find all that interesting.  In our present discussion, my careful reading of Jefferson&#8217;s 1788 letter to Dirieux has him not quite decided that the Trinity is a fiction.  </p>
<p>Whereas by 1823, he&#8217;s analysed John 1 and decided that &#8220;the word made flesh&#8221; of John 1 is a mistranslation of &#8220;logos.&#8221;  Now, this is an anti-Trinitarian tract!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/53/Letter_from_Thomas_Jefferson_to_John_Adams_1.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/53/Letter_from_Thomas_Jefferson_to_John_Adams_1.html</a></p>
<p>As always, best regards.</p>
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