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	Comments on: Why Santorum can&#8217;t win in November	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 22:49:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: StraightGrandmother		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/#comment-95196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StraightGrandmother]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 22:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11295#comment-95196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As bad as this is, and it is bad, I still find this worse.

The State of Georgia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&#038;feature=player_embedded&#038;v=tt3hpQ8Hris]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As bad as this is, and it is bad, I still find this worse.</p>
<p>The State of Georgia</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&#038;feature=player_embedded&#038;v=tt3hpQ8Hris" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&#038;feature=player_embedded&#038;v=tt3hpQ8Hris</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/#comment-94387</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11295#comment-94387</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/#comment-93933&quot;&gt;Blake&lt;/a&gt;.

People don&#039;t choose their pastors? Well, a pastor could come into an existing church and begin preaching something objectionable. Then the politician would have to decide how bad the objection is. However, in this case, Santorum was there to get prayed over by the guy who said non-Christians could get out. He really could have chosen not to do that. He could have walked out. He could have done a lot of things but he didn&#039;t. I am not really judging him for what the guy said directly. But I don&#039;t have respect for his reaction to the situation. His big brave move to stand up for rights of conscience? He didn&#039;t clap (he said) when the minister proclaimed nonsense. How brave.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/#comment-93933">Blake</a>.</p>
<p>People don&#8217;t choose their pastors? Well, a pastor could come into an existing church and begin preaching something objectionable. Then the politician would have to decide how bad the objection is. However, in this case, Santorum was there to get prayed over by the guy who said non-Christians could get out. He really could have chosen not to do that. He could have walked out. He could have done a lot of things but he didn&#8217;t. I am not really judging him for what the guy said directly. But I don&#8217;t have respect for his reaction to the situation. His big brave move to stand up for rights of conscience? He didn&#8217;t clap (he said) when the minister proclaimed nonsense. How brave.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Blake		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/#comment-93933</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11295#comment-93933</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I really find these discussions of pastors in a political context disturbing. I don&#039;t think people always choose their pastors, I don&#039;t think people expect that what their pastors say will be taken as an endorsement of the position (or of the ignorance of the pastor as happened to Obama), I don&#039;t think people should have to consider the politics of the pastor when choosing a church, I don&#039;t think attending a church qualifies as an endorsement of everything said at the pulpit, and I don&#039;t think visitors to a church are automatically endorsing what a pastor is saying by applauding. It was distasteful when people tried to make a controversy out of Obama&#039;s affiliation with Jeremiah Wright &#038; I  think its distasteful to try to do the same to Santorum.



I worry that by making pastors&#039; sermons an issue we are participating in the further politicizing of churches. What is an aspiring politician to do if every word his pastor ever speaks is going to be future political fodder? What is that aspiring politician to do when the philosophy of every church they visit is now tied to their political career?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really find these discussions of pastors in a political context disturbing. I don&#8217;t think people always choose their pastors, I don&#8217;t think people expect that what their pastors say will be taken as an endorsement of the position (or of the ignorance of the pastor as happened to Obama), I don&#8217;t think people should have to consider the politics of the pastor when choosing a church, I don&#8217;t think attending a church qualifies as an endorsement of everything said at the pulpit, and I don&#8217;t think visitors to a church are automatically endorsing what a pastor is saying by applauding. It was distasteful when people tried to make a controversy out of Obama&#8217;s affiliation with Jeremiah Wright &#038; I  think its distasteful to try to do the same to Santorum.</p>
<p>I worry that by making pastors&#8217; sermons an issue we are participating in the further politicizing of churches. What is an aspiring politician to do if every word his pastor ever speaks is going to be future political fodder? What is that aspiring politician to do when the philosophy of every church they visit is now tied to their political career?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lynn David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/#comment-93934</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11295#comment-93934</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Warren, have you looked at the demographics of the Republican primary in Illinois - either by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012/illinois-primary-march-20/results-by-county?intcmp=trending&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;text-listing by county (FOX)&lt;/a&gt; or the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.c-span.org/Campaign2012/#results&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;AP&#039;s map graphic on C-Span&lt;/a&gt; (click on Illinois)?



Santorums base in this is mostly rural and small-town republicans.  Rhetoric such as that expressed by this preacher is not going to matter to people such as that.  Having heard from the German Protestant and Catholic farmers in my own county in Indiana (adjacent to an Illinois county that went better than 50% for Santorum) many of them would espouse a similar rhetoric.   Likely it is a wash.  It may hurt Santorum in more urban areas, however, slightly, but that may be offset by those gained in more rural areas.

. . .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren, have you looked at the demographics of the Republican primary in Illinois &#8211; either by <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012/illinois-primary-march-20/results-by-county?intcmp=trending" rel="nofollow">text-listing by county (FOX)</a> or the <a href="http://www.c-span.org/Campaign2012/#results" rel="nofollow">AP&#8217;s map graphic on C-Span</a> (click on Illinois)?</p>
<p>Santorums base in this is mostly rural and small-town republicans.  Rhetoric such as that expressed by this preacher is not going to matter to people such as that.  Having heard from the German Protestant and Catholic farmers in my own county in Indiana (adjacent to an Illinois county that went better than 50% for Santorum) many of them would espouse a similar rhetoric.   Likely it is a wash.  It may hurt Santorum in more urban areas, however, slightly, but that may be offset by those gained in more rural areas.</p>
<p>. . .</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nick		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/20/why-santorum-cant-win-in-november/#comment-85884</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11295#comment-85884</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;This nation was founded as a Christian nation.&quot;



Let&#039;s replace &quot;This nation&quot; with &quot;America.&quot; Thus, &quot;[America] was founded as a Christian nation.&quot;



The real issue is what he means by the phrase &quot;America was founded&#8230;&quot; 



Argument 1: Going by the literal interpretation of the 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights, the American nation-state was certainly not governmentally-founded as Christian: because we respect no establishment of religion, we&#039;re not a Christian nation any more than we are a Buddhist or Jewish or Muslim nation.



Argument 2: &quot;[America] was founded&#8230;&quot; is therefore figurative: the concept of &quot;America&quot; thus existed long before the actual American nation-state was established. As such, the argument is that those who helped establish the roots that eventually grew into America specifically did so with the understanding &#8211; no, the goal &#8211; of creating a &quot;Christian&quot; nation. But this contention emphasizes only part of the historical record. Yes, there were certainly many, many Christians who helped found this nation; but, there were also a number of individuals who contributed to the founding that were either non-religious or &#039;not as&#039; religious as others.



The bigger dilemma (which requires a whole &#039;nother post) is whether the meaning of the term &quot;America&quot; is effectively more conceptual than it is governmental/legal.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This nation was founded as a Christian nation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s replace &#8220;This nation&#8221; with &#8220;America.&#8221; Thus, &#8220;[America] was founded as a Christian nation.&#8221;</p>
<p>The real issue is what he means by the phrase &#8220;America was founded&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>Argument 1: Going by the literal interpretation of the 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights, the American nation-state was certainly not governmentally-founded as Christian: because we respect no establishment of religion, we&#8217;re not a Christian nation any more than we are a Buddhist or Jewish or Muslim nation.</p>
<p>Argument 2: &#8220;[America] was founded&#8230;&#8221; is therefore figurative: the concept of &#8220;America&#8221; thus existed long before the actual American nation-state was established. As such, the argument is that those who helped establish the roots that eventually grew into America specifically did so with the understanding &#8211; no, the goal &#8211; of creating a &#8220;Christian&#8221; nation. But this contention emphasizes only part of the historical record. Yes, there were certainly many, many Christians who helped found this nation; but, there were also a number of individuals who contributed to the founding that were either non-religious or &#8216;not as&#8217; religious as others.</p>
<p>The bigger dilemma (which requires a whole &#8216;nother post) is whether the meaning of the term &#8220;America&#8221; is effectively more conceptual than it is governmental/legal.</p>
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