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	<title>
	Comments on: Note to Kirk Cameron: If you don’t want a fight, then don’t start one	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:25:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: StraightGrandmother		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-89115</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StraightGrandmother]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-89115</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like David M&#039;s comment very much. There is no un-ringing the bell.  



The days of unanswered attacks on the very person hood, or humanity of sexual minorities are over. The great leveler is technology, Facebook, Rwitter, the Internet. No longer does a sexual minority in hicksville Oklahoma feel isolated and alone. They now have a way to reach out and find communities of friendship, support and activism. Remember the song, &quot;One is the loneliest number&quot; Nobody is &quot;one&quot; anymore. 



This bell can never be un-rung. The only direction possible is to advance the Civil and Human Rights of Sexual Minorities. This wave is rolling forwards, not backwards, it may roll over an obstacle here or there, but it is going to advance forwards. This wave is to big to stop.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like David M&#8217;s comment very much. There is no un-ringing the bell.  </p>
<p>The days of unanswered attacks on the very person hood, or humanity of sexual minorities are over. The great leveler is technology, Facebook, Rwitter, the Internet. No longer does a sexual minority in hicksville Oklahoma feel isolated and alone. They now have a way to reach out and find communities of friendship, support and activism. Remember the song, &#8220;One is the loneliest number&#8221; Nobody is &#8220;one&#8221; anymore. </p>
<p>This bell can never be un-rung. The only direction possible is to advance the Civil and Human Rights of Sexual Minorities. This wave is rolling forwards, not backwards, it may roll over an obstacle here or there, but it is going to advance forwards. This wave is to big to stop.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-89114</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-89114</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What Cameron (I wonder if there is any relation, certainly sound similar :) ) is doing is confusing &quot;freedom of speech&quot; and &quot;freedom from the consequences of speech&quot;.  



He is certainly free to say whatever he likes, but people are also free to react to what he says in a variety of ways.  Either, with speech of their own or simply deciding not to see his movies and/or encouraging others to do the same or a variety of other actions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Cameron (I wonder if there is any relation, certainly sound similar 🙂 ) is doing is confusing &#8220;freedom of speech&#8221; and &#8220;freedom from the consequences of speech&#8221;.  </p>
<p>He is certainly free to say whatever he likes, but people are also free to react to what he says in a variety of ways.  Either, with speech of their own or simply deciding not to see his movies and/or encouraging others to do the same or a variety of other actions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Julie		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-89104</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-89104</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dr. Throckmorton, 

I stopped reading at the point that you said &#039;the other side&#039; has a right to call him a homophobe as a form of expressing their moral beliefs.  NO, sir, this is just chilish name-calling.  Mr Cameron did not lower himself to that level,  As a mother of a gay son, and divorced wife of a gay Episcopal priest, I have directly seen and experienced the destruction to my family, as just one example of the destruction to the institution of Family in our culture.  

I hasten to add, I did go back and finish reading your blog here.

James Dobson got criticized for taking his organization Focus on the Family into the political arena.  But you receive no such criticizm.  Interesting.  I first followed you as a researcher and scientist in the exploration of homosexuality.  Do you still have time for research?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Throckmorton, </p>
<p>I stopped reading at the point that you said &#8216;the other side&#8217; has a right to call him a homophobe as a form of expressing their moral beliefs.  NO, sir, this is just chilish name-calling.  Mr Cameron did not lower himself to that level,  As a mother of a gay son, and divorced wife of a gay Episcopal priest, I have directly seen and experienced the destruction to my family, as just one example of the destruction to the institution of Family in our culture.  </p>
<p>I hasten to add, I did go back and finish reading your blog here.</p>
<p>James Dobson got criticized for taking his organization Focus on the Family into the political arena.  But you receive no such criticizm.  Interesting.  I first followed you as a researcher and scientist in the exploration of homosexuality.  Do you still have time for research?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bernie		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-89112</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bernie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-89112</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bravo Warren!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo Warren!</p>
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		<title>
		By: anteros		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-89113</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anteros]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-89113</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[wow!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-85197</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-85197</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cameron&#039;s original statement that &#039;homosexuality&#039; is, of itself, &#039;detrimental, and ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization&#039; doesn&#039;t stand up to scrutiny.  &#039;Civilization&#039; has survived centuries of &#039;homosexuality&#039; and so called &#039;gender confusion&#039;, and, on a personal level, we all know decent, caring, socially-responsible gay and transgendered people.



The kind of &#039;name-calling&#039; embraced by many homophobic people IS a threat to the kind of civilization many want to see.  It is, of course, always very sad when families break up as a result of one or more members of that being gay.  But are all such break ups actually necessary?  As the comments on this very thread suggest, many gay people have married in the past in order to disguise or deny their homosexuality; perhaps the REAL problem is the disguising and/or denial - both of which are often promoted by homophobia.



People who are caught up in &#039;family break ups&#039; are bound to feel that their little bit of &#039;civilization&#039; has, in some way, been &#039;destroyed&#039;.  However, it is also the case, as I think David M. expresses well, that the &#039;destruction&#039; of something that is untenable can provide new opportunities - not least a human relationship (with a former partner, etc.) that is based on a truthful understanding of the people involved.



(I suspect that most breakdowns in human relationships are the result of the &#039;disguise&#039; or &#039;denial&#039; of something.  And since we all &#039;disguise&#039; and/or &#039;deny&#039; up to a point, all our relationships are &#039;at risk&#039; of apparent failure!  Such is life.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cameron&#8217;s original statement that &#8216;homosexuality&#8217; is, of itself, &#8216;detrimental, and ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization&#8217; doesn&#8217;t stand up to scrutiny.  &#8216;Civilization&#8217; has survived centuries of &#8216;homosexuality&#8217; and so called &#8216;gender confusion&#8217;, and, on a personal level, we all know decent, caring, socially-responsible gay and transgendered people.</p>
<p>The kind of &#8216;name-calling&#8217; embraced by many homophobic people IS a threat to the kind of civilization many want to see.  It is, of course, always very sad when families break up as a result of one or more members of that being gay.  But are all such break ups actually necessary?  As the comments on this very thread suggest, many gay people have married in the past in order to disguise or deny their homosexuality; perhaps the REAL problem is the disguising and/or denial &#8211; both of which are often promoted by homophobia.</p>
<p>People who are caught up in &#8216;family break ups&#8217; are bound to feel that their little bit of &#8216;civilization&#8217; has, in some way, been &#8216;destroyed&#8217;.  However, it is also the case, as I think David M. expresses well, that the &#8216;destruction&#8217; of something that is untenable can provide new opportunities &#8211; not least a human relationship (with a former partner, etc.) that is based on a truthful understanding of the people involved.</p>
<p>(I suspect that most breakdowns in human relationships are the result of the &#8216;disguise&#8217; or &#8216;denial&#8217; of something.  And since we all &#8216;disguise&#8217; and/or &#8216;deny&#8217; up to a point, all our relationships are &#8216;at risk&#8217; of apparent failure!  Such is life.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-85196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-85196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In response to Julie&#039;s point on &#039;criticism&#039;: my understanding is that Warren has indeed been &#039;criticized&#039; for the line he has taken.  And we should the forget the context within which our criticism of homophobic rhetoric is set: it is a context of malice and discrimination (and, in too many cases, violence), as well as one of crass generalization.  We should, after all, remember that people like Warren are not criticizing people for being straight!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Julie&#8217;s point on &#8216;criticism&#8217;: my understanding is that Warren has indeed been &#8216;criticized&#8217; for the line he has taken.  And we should the forget the context within which our criticism of homophobic rhetoric is set: it is a context of malice and discrimination (and, in too many cases, violence), as well as one of crass generalization.  We should, after all, remember that people like Warren are not criticizing people for being straight!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-85198</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-85198</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think those of us who object to Cameron&#039;s homophobic outbursts are saying that there is no place for gender roles in society.  Our contention is that there are individuals that do not fit  the &#039;majority&#039; gender roles and that these individuals deserve the same respect as human beings as does anyone else.



There is absolutely no need for 100% of the population to be heterosexual.  The population of the planet is growing quite fast enough (some might say rather too fast) as it is!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think those of us who object to Cameron&#8217;s homophobic outbursts are saying that there is no place for gender roles in society.  Our contention is that there are individuals that do not fit  the &#8216;majority&#8217; gender roles and that these individuals deserve the same respect as human beings as does anyone else.</p>
<p>There is absolutely no need for 100% of the population to be heterosexual.  The population of the planet is growing quite fast enough (some might say rather too fast) as it is!</p>
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		<title>
		By: DAVE G		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-85199</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DAVE G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-85199</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry (?) guys, but I agree with Cameron.  And describing the consequences of behavior --especially as it becomes more widespread and acceptable --is not name-calling.  Cameron said &quot;homosexuality,&quot; he did not say &quot;homosexuals.&quot;  However, it is called a &quot;sexual identity disorder&quot; because they establish their very identity, their sense of who they are, based on the behavior and the classic-conditioned physiological response to attractive same-sex persons.  The rhetoric of the homosexual community reinforces this identity establishment. And then sexual intercourse is addictive, especially during our fertile years.  All this makes complete change practically impossible, but not hopelessly.



This cultural conflict is not likely to subside as long as reputable people cling to the conviction the homosexuality is an innate and immutable human trait for some, rather than a disorder derived from human experience and conditioned behavior.  The fact is, every one of us is capable of becoming homosexual; that&#039;s why cultural mores are established to avoid this behavior in the first place.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry (?) guys, but I agree with Cameron.  And describing the consequences of behavior &#8211;especially as it becomes more widespread and acceptable &#8211;is not name-calling.  Cameron said &#8220;homosexuality,&#8221; he did not say &#8220;homosexuals.&#8221;  However, it is called a &#8220;sexual identity disorder&#8221; because they establish their very identity, their sense of who they are, based on the behavior and the classic-conditioned physiological response to attractive same-sex persons.  The rhetoric of the homosexual community reinforces this identity establishment. And then sexual intercourse is addictive, especially during our fertile years.  All this makes complete change practically impossible, but not hopelessly.</p>
<p>This cultural conflict is not likely to subside as long as reputable people cling to the conviction the homosexuality is an innate and immutable human trait for some, rather than a disorder derived from human experience and conditioned behavior.  The fact is, every one of us is capable of becoming homosexual; that&#8217;s why cultural mores are established to avoid this behavior in the first place.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/03/07/note-to-kirk-cameron-if-you-dont-want-a-fight-then-dont-start-one/#comment-82541</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11243#comment-82541</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Dave G, your post is nothing but a tissue of unsubstantiated assertions, some of which are contradicted by the facts of experience.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Dave G, your post is nothing but a tissue of unsubstantiated assertions, some of which are contradicted by the facts of experience.</p>
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