so you are 100% free of ssa?

so you are 100% free of ssa?

Certainly temptation is diminished if we remove ourselves from certain circumstances, etc. But I think this is a healthy development in thinking that will remove an insurmountable (and dubious) barrier between homosexuals and the promise of the Gospel.

Reading the things he says from this viewpoint, it makes much more sense to me. This does not change the fact that he is not clear at all about this and so his writings are very misleading to people with another definition. If this is because he is too confused about this fact or if he chooses to be deliberately misleading, I cannot say.

“The majority of people that I have met, and I would say the majority meaning 99.9% of them have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction.”

I find Alan to be very confusing at times. First to which of the conditions does the 99.9% apply to? There are at least four noted and none are quite wholly the same. Change in orientation or never tempted, etc.? This is not clear.

Then from Dr. Throckmorton a curious statement from an academic:

“As one who once defended sexual reorientation change efforts, I have to agree with Chambers’ assessment. Credible reports of change are rare and do come more often from women than men.”

Isn’t this a classic error and curious from an academic? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence yet the Dr. “agrees”?

I read some of the academic studies on homosexuality and while not an expert Dr. Throckmorton’s concurrence with Alan is odd and then troubling when coupled with the following quote below. (Also the appeal to “once defended sexual reorientation…” is a kind of appeal to authority in reverse.)

I don’t know what to make of Dr. T’s cynicism bordering on sarcasm:

“Now, I wonder. Will this news be reported by Christian media, or become part of the evangelical blackout?”

As a Christian I don’t understand this attitude? Is it appropriate coming from a Christian in the academy?

My freedom from same-sex attractions came when I no longer believed the lies about what makes a woman feminine and a man manly. I stopped believing I was “not like other girls” and discovered that God made us all much more different from each other than society deems acceptable (I am talking many areas of life where you can be outside the accepted norm but not be sinning).

Science that claims the brain is hard-wired to be gay or straight overlook the fact that the brain develops and redevelops in the early years of life and that behavior/necessity drive the building of neural pathways. Some things about me may be inborn, and if i believed those things were inherently masculine i would never be free of same sex attractions. i do not believe that though, and so i am free. I stopped watching TV with it’s messages of how I need to buy stuff so i’ll measure up, too. the only times i have struggled with it again was when reading so-called science telling me that the way i am is outside natures cut-out pattern for women and the all functions there-of. Paul warned us that people would be deceived by “science falsely so-called” and some of these comments illustrate that. If you struggle with SSA’s i do not recommend reading those things, they will not help. If i do not doubt myself in this area, i have no desire for other women.

May 11, 2013 at 6:15 pm

“First to which of the conditions does the 99.9% apply to?”

given that the “99.9%” is just a number he made up, I fail to see why it is important exactly which case it is applied to. What is clear is that he is saying for the vast majority of cases he is familiar with the claims of change in sexual orientation are not true.

“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence yet the Dr. “agrees”? ”

Not in this case. The question being asked is “does therapy work to change a person’s orientation?” So the absence of any significant cases of a change in orientation that can be shown to have been caused by therapy does show that the answer to the question is “no” for the general case. Now this fact isn’t the same thing as saying no one has ever experienced a change in orientation.

“As a Christian I don’t understand this attitude? Is it appropriate coming from a Christian in the academy?”

the attitude comes from Warren’s personal experience with many christian (evangelical?) groups that do not know much about the recent (within the last decade) research into sexual orientation. Which indicates their sources of information about sexual orientation are lacking. He posted about that here.

September 6, 2012 at 12:07 am

” same-sex attraction is enculturated, and anything that is enculturated will feel natural, obvious and inborn even though it is not. ”

homosexuality is a natural variation of sexual/affectional orientation. It has existed thoughout recorded history and cultures.

“It seems to me in my dealings with lgbt men that the issue is feeling like they can’t relate to other men or aren’t like other men or don’t “have what it takes”. ”

While some gay men (and some straight men) have trouble relating to other men (or are effeminate), many do not. And attempting to “cure” gay men by getting them to “man up” is ineffective in changing orientation. Which is what Alan was saying, He finally realized that doesn’t work. And that the vast majority of men who tried to change their orientation didn’t.

Do I still have same gender sexual attractions? Very rarely! Do I have opposite gender sexual attractions, yes indeed!

Do I still have temptations and sexual thoughts, yes, occassionaly . . . but they no longer have that power over me that they use to.

Charlene – Males who are basically straight in their orientation do not have intermittent same-gender attractions; women are more fluid and may have such attractions in an emotionally close relationship with another woman, and still be basically straight. Some gay men can be attracted to a small group, maybe only one woman, but not to women in general while retaining SSA. They often report that the SSA seems more distant to them while they are in these relationships with women, but that it doesn’t go away. There are bisexuals who seem to have an ebb and flow of attractions to both men and women. What you are describing seems to fit in with what is observed. However, Alan is describing people who have a particular set of attractions to the same sex and then completely lose those and develop a commensurate level of attraction for the opposite sex. As I have found as well, people who say that has happened to them are rare. More often the story is as you have described, you start out saying you have completely changed and then you say you still have SSA.

None of those observations are to minimize the religious and existential commitments you have made to live in accord with your faith. I applaud and respect these decisions. I just believe we need to be honest about what is happening. Alan has come to that place as well, and I respect him for it.