The Rabbis that signed this, I think, are what can be called ‘ultra-Orthodox’, for the most part.

As I commented on the other thread, Yeshiva University is a “Modern Orthodox” school, so I would venture to guess that the names in this section are not “ultra”. (Though it may be that Yeshiva University has some Ultra-Orthodox faculty members — I’m not sure.)

Also, although there’s no rule against an Ultra-Orthodox Jew earning an M.D. or Ph.D. in a “secular field” such as medicine or psychology, stereotypically they’re allergic to anything secular and shun all other academic fields in favor of studying Talmud all the livelong day.

So, statistically, many of the M.D.s and psychologists listed are likely to be Modern Orthodox. And I would wager money that a lot of them have views on homosexuality that are shaped by secular “science” (i.e., some variation of Freudianism — “repair the emotional wounds” is a giveaway) as much as by Scripture… in other words, they’re NARTHoids whether or not they’re formally affiliated with NARTH.

Warren:

Rather, they hold a religious view … and bend research to promote that belief.

See also: Young Earth Creationism, and for that matter, Shroud of Turin promoters. (I was just reminded of the latter because apparently the Turin Board of Tourism a group of eminent Italian scientists recently announced startling NEW evidence showing the image on cloth was formed by a intense burst of ultraviolet radiation!!!!! Wow, I remember Leonard Nimoy discussing that exact same “burst of radiation” idea on In Search Of…, way back in the disco era!)

The there is the issue of being written without vowels and diacriticals (which are essential to Hebrew). At least what I learned for my Bar Mitzvah passage had spacing but the original text was scribed without any.

It is my opinion that the Torah was meant to be ambiguous to require rabbinical intervention. I would also add that Jewish law was eventually dependent upon the Talmud and the Pentatuch. A good example of this is capital punishment. While widely required by the Torah, the Talmud makes it virtually impossible to ever carry out. Oy veh, it is a torturous process.

Put four Jews in a room and they will find something to argue (vehemently) about. Seriously. I think that this is a cultural leftover from debate over scripture and Jewish law. Rabbis are far less certain than these homophobic schmucks.

Aside from all the mainstream psychiatric, psychological, social work, the World Health Organization and counselling groups even many experts among people that have been involved in “reparative therapy” mostly agree on this. It does not work in changing orientation.

Dr. Abba Borowich, an Orthodox psychiatrist who practiced reparative therapy for Orthodox homosexuals for nearly 30 years concluded that this was an ineffective course of therapy which only increased suffering among his patients and their families .

Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who is the author of Judaism and Homosexuality: An Authentic Orthodox View, has said, “I am not obligated to believe in a failed therapy because it fits my theology better.”

See also

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=110642

According to those who do believe in such conversions, the success rate is around 0.5%

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm

The 0.5%% change raises a question, if the therapy does work the success rate should be 99% or at least 51%, but if it doesn’t how can anyone change?

This question is not answered in the research I have read. My opinion is that there are a few people who get involved with sexual relations, for a variety of reasons, with the same sex even though they are actually not oriented that way.

Another answer is that some people are not capable of admitting or knowing what is really going on.

Finally, many of these studies included people who make a living from claiming that this change is possible.

In contrast to the Declaration’s overly dramatic makeover claims, Mark Yarhouse believes that slight changes are possible but ” I don’t think that everyone can change or that anyone can change, as though it were just a matter of enough effort or of enough faith. Also, the data we have sees from our own research suggests that categorical change – 180 degrees – from gay to straight is less likely than what I refer to as meaningful shifts along a continuum (from same-sex to opposite-sex attraction).”

The leader of Exodus the largest public group of people (several hundreds) who changed from a gay to heterosexual lifestyle admits that this does not include an end of same sex attraction for 99.9% of the group.

“There has been a change in our beliefs about orientation change focused therapy and we don’t believe it’s effective.”

Dr. Spitzer

“If people can recognize that being a homosexual is something that cannot be changed and that efforts to change are going to be disappointing and can be harmful, if that can be more widely known that would be very good. ”

Another issue is that the Declaration group

led by Rabbi Kamenetsky, primarily relies on

and promotes

someone who is of bad character, who has a history of misleading people for profit, Arthur Goldberg of Jonah.

See

http://www.southfloridagaynews.com/news/national-news/547-ex-gay-is-ex-con.html

This organization has many problems

aside from a criminal history.

It can’t provide any proof of change, It has relied on crackpot therapies that have included touching that is prohibited by the Torah, and it relies primarily, and in great detail on the idea that Jesus will provide the change. This may help some Christians to become more Christian but can’t help make a Jew more Jewish.

I hope that in spite of what they must have experienced the twenty-five people

that have gone through the Torah Declaration path will have happy Torah lives. I believe that people who want to obey the Torah sex laws should have a way that helps them do so, but this is not the right way.

Without having clear evidence that a treatment is effective you cannot in good conscience recommend an unproven treatment that can cause undo pain, suffering, and death as the signers of this declaration have done.

But Orthodox Jewish religious therapists and rabbis have an alternative to this Declaration. See

statementofprinciplesnya.blogspot.com

The many rabbis that signed this other statement are truly concerned for both the 0.5% and the 99.5% group and have not endorsed a failed therapy because it would fit better with their theology.

Aside from all the mainstream psychiatric, psychological, social work, the World Health Organization and counselling groups even many experts among people that have been involved in “reparative therapy” mostly agree on this. It does not work in changing orientation.

Dr. Abba Borowich, an Orthodox psychiatrist who practiced reparative therapy for Orthodox homosexuals for nearly 30 years concluded that this was an ineffective course of therapy which only increased suffering among his patients and their families .

Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who is the author of Judaism and Homosexuality: An Authentic Orthodox View, has said, “I am not obligated to believe in a failed therapy because it fits my theology better.”

See also

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=110642

According to those who do believe in such conversions, the success rate is around 0.5%

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm

The 0.5%% change raises a question, if the therapy does work the success rate should be 99% or at least 51%, but if it doesn’t how can anyone change?

This question is not answered in the research I have read. My opinion is that there are a few people who get involved with sexual relations, for a variety of reasons, with the same sex even though they are actually not oriented that way.

Another answer is that some people are not capable of admitting or knowing what is really going on.

Finally, many of these studies included people who make a living from claiming that this change is possible.

In contrast to the Declaration’s overly dramatic makeover claims, Mark Yarhouse believes that slight changes are possible but ” I don’t think that everyone can change or that anyone can change, as though it were just a matter of enough effort or of enough faith. Also, the data we have sees from our own research suggests that categorical change – 180 degrees – from gay to straight is less likely than what I refer to as meaningful shifts along a continuum (from same-sex to opposite-sex attraction).”

The leader of Exodus the largest public group of people (several hundreds) who changed from a gay to heterosexual lifestyle admits that this does not include an end of same sex attraction for 99.9% of the group.

“There has been a change in our beliefs about orientation change focused therapy and we don’t believe it’s effective.”

Dr. Spitzer

“If people can recognize that being a homosexual is something that cannot be changed and that efforts to change are going to be disappointing and can be harmful, if that can be more widely known that would be very good. ”

Another issue is that the Declaration group

led by Rabbi Kamenetsky, primarily relies on

and promotes

someone who is of bad character, who has a history of misleading people for profit, Arthur Goldberg of Jonah.

See

http://www.southfloridagaynews.com/news/national-news/547-ex-gay-is-ex-con.html

This organization has many problems

aside from a criminal history.

It can’t provide any proof of change, It has relied on crackpot therapies that have included touching that is prohibited by the Torah, and it relies primarily, and in great detail on the idea that Jesus will provide the change. This may help some Christians to become more Christian but can’t help make a Jew more Jewish.

I hope that in spite of what they must have experienced the twenty-five people

that have gone through the Torah Declaration path will have happy Torah lives. I believe that people who want to obey the Torah sex laws should have a way that helps them do so, but this is not the right way.

Without having clear evidence that a treatment is effective you cannot in good conscience recommend an unproven treatment that can cause undo pain, suffering, and death as the signers of this declaration have done.

But Orthodox Jewish religious therapists and rabbis have an alternative to this Declaration. See

statementofprinciplesnya.blogspot.com

The many rabbis that signed this other statement are truly concerned for both the 0.5% and the 99.5% group and have not endorsed a failed therapy because it would fit better with their theology.

Wasn’t Arthur Goldberg a convicted felon who spent 18 months in prison for fraud in the 80’s? And isn’t he a founder of a Jewish “ex-gay” group JONAH?

http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2010/02/im-the-victim-convicted-felon-arthur-abba-goldberg-versus-the-world/