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	<title>
	Comments on: What do Dan Savage and AFTAH&#8217;s Mike Heath have in common?	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: StraightGrandmother		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StraightGrandmother]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dave Hart, I clicked on your name in your previous comment and went to your blog. I read a few articles and enjoyed every one of them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Hart, I clicked on your name in your previous comment and went to your blog. I read a few articles and enjoyed every one of them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fiona Mackenzie		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fiona Mackenzie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In light of Paul&#039;s recently locking into a preacher who advocates executing gays, Dan may want to re-think this opinion.  The &quot;libertarian&quot; idea of personal freedom without government interference is tempting, especially to those who have suffered persecution.  It is ESSENTIAL not to forget that this idyllic world of individual choice is for straight white males in good health and corporations, only.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In light of Paul&#8217;s recently locking into a preacher who advocates executing gays, Dan may want to re-think this opinion.  The &#8220;libertarian&#8221; idea of personal freedom without government interference is tempting, especially to those who have suffered persecution.  It is ESSENTIAL not to forget that this idyllic world of individual choice is for straight white males in good health and corporations, only.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Throbert McGee# ~ Dec 28, 2011 at 7:53 pm



 &quot; &lt;blockquote&gt;The US Constitution DOES NOT grant rights to the people, it grants rights to the GOVERNMENT.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



I disagree. The US Constitution (or at least the &quot;Bill of Rights&quot; that consists of the first ten Amendments) doesn&#039;t &quot;grant rights&quot; to the government&quot;



The Constitution (not just the bill of rights) specifies the specific powers (rights) of the government.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Throbert McGee# ~ Dec 28, 2011 at 7:53 pm</p>
<p> &#8221; </p>
<blockquote><p>The US Constitution DOES NOT grant rights to the people, it grants rights to the GOVERNMENT.</p></blockquote>
<p>I disagree. The US Constitution (or at least the &#8220;Bill of Rights&#8221; that consists of the first ten Amendments) doesn&#8217;t &#8220;grant rights&#8221; to the government&#8221;</p>
<p>The Constitution (not just the bill of rights) specifies the specific powers (rights) of the government.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lynn David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll just say this.....  in the 44 years since I came out I have found that there are degrees of the devil with which a gay person sometimes has to live.   Would that it were not true at all.   So I doubt the comparison Savage makes does not speak to an endorsement but to those unfortunate degrees of devilry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just say this&#8230;..  in the 44 years since I came out I have found that there are degrees of the devil with which a gay person sometimes has to live.   Would that it were not true at all.   So I doubt the comparison Savage makes does not speak to an endorsement but to those unfortunate degrees of devilry.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Hart		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Hart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like Dan but he is naive about Paul&#039;s positions. To tell you the truth, Ron Paul&#039;s ideology is almost identical to Father Caughlin&#039;s, some 60 years ago - including &quot;end the Fed.&quot; I don&#039;t think that Paul likes Jewish people very much either. Moreover, Paul&#039;s positions on the Fed and the gold standard sheer crackpottery.



Without going into an Austrian School rant, Paul is no economist. He should stick to treating hemorrhoids rather than causing similar discomfort.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Dan but he is naive about Paul&#8217;s positions. To tell you the truth, Ron Paul&#8217;s ideology is almost identical to Father Caughlin&#8217;s, some 60 years ago &#8211; including &#8220;end the Fed.&#8221; I don&#8217;t think that Paul likes Jewish people very much either. Moreover, Paul&#8217;s positions on the Fed and the gold standard sheer crackpottery.</p>
<p>Without going into an Austrian School rant, Paul is no economist. He should stick to treating hemorrhoids rather than causing similar discomfort.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Throbert McGee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82190</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throbert McGee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82190</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron Paul wrote:



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;Ridiculous&lt;/b&gt; as sodomy laws may be...&lt;/blockquote&gt;



I recall there was an awful lot of that going around after &lt;i&gt;Lawrence v. Texas&lt;/i&gt;, when conservative pundits attacking the decision were careful to qualify their remarks by noting, &quot;I personally think anti-sodomy laws are &lt;b&gt;silly / absurd / nonsensical&lt;/b&gt;, BUT...&quot;



Sure, and when the Soviet Union sent dissidents packing off to Lubyanka prison, that was a laff-riot worthy of the Marx Brothers. And Chinese oppression of Christian house-churches is comedy gold!!



I&#039;m reminded that Ayn Rand (who, unlike Ron Paul, always denied being a &quot;libertarian&quot;) was known to be quite homophobic, and described homosexuality as &quot;disgusting&quot;. But she flatly asserted that anti-sodomy laws were an &lt;b&gt;immoral&lt;/b&gt; use of state power, and not merely &quot;silly.&quot; (She was also squeamish about pornography, but said that government censorship of pr0n was &quot;immoral,&quot; too, and was emphatic about the point that state-level censorship was no less morally evil than the federal kind.)



P.S. Paul wrote (as did many, many conservatives after &lt;i&gt;Lawrence&lt;/i&gt;) that there&#039;s no explicit mention of &quot;privacy&quot; or &quot;sodomy&quot; in the U.S. Constitution. This is true, but one might observe that there was nothing in the constitutions of the USSR or PRC to prohibit the State from infringing on freedom of speech or religion. Most libertarians would argue, however, that citizens of totalitarian countries nonetheless possess these rights, inalienably, by being human.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p><b>Ridiculous</b> as sodomy laws may be&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>I recall there was an awful lot of that going around after <i>Lawrence v. Texas</i>, when conservative pundits attacking the decision were careful to qualify their remarks by noting, &#8220;I personally think anti-sodomy laws are <b>silly / absurd / nonsensical</b>, BUT&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, and when the Soviet Union sent dissidents packing off to Lubyanka prison, that was a laff-riot worthy of the Marx Brothers. And Chinese oppression of Christian house-churches is comedy gold!!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reminded that Ayn Rand (who, unlike Ron Paul, always denied being a &#8220;libertarian&#8221;) was known to be quite homophobic, and described homosexuality as &#8220;disgusting&#8221;. But she flatly asserted that anti-sodomy laws were an <b>immoral</b> use of state power, and not merely &#8220;silly.&#8221; (She was also squeamish about pornography, but said that government censorship of pr0n was &#8220;immoral,&#8221; too, and was emphatic about the point that state-level censorship was no less morally evil than the federal kind.)</p>
<p>P.S. Paul wrote (as did many, many conservatives after <i>Lawrence</i>) that there&#8217;s no explicit mention of &#8220;privacy&#8221; or &#8220;sodomy&#8221; in the U.S. Constitution. This is true, but one might observe that there was nothing in the constitutions of the USSR or PRC to prohibit the State from infringing on freedom of speech or religion. Most libertarians would argue, however, that citizens of totalitarian countries nonetheless possess these rights, inalienably, by being human.</p>
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		<title>
		By: StraightGrandmother		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82192</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StraightGrandmother]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82192</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ken that was a good comment, thx]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ken that was a good comment, thx</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82191</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82191</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think Dan supports the myth of Paul&#039;s libertarianism rather than the reality of how its applied.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Dan supports the myth of Paul&#8217;s libertarianism rather than the reality of how its applied.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82194</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82194</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For the record, although Heath won narrow victories against gay rights in 1998 and 2000, he ultimately lost in a big way.  The same gay rights law was approved by a vote of the people of Maine in 2005.  The margin of victory was greater than any of Heath&#039;s prior wins.  This was also the first time in US history that a statewide gay rights law was approved by popular vote.



After his defeat, he tried to gather signatures for another initiative to repeal the anti-discrimination law and to repeal Maine&#039;s limited domestic partnership law.  Even though Maine makes it very easy to get initiatives on the ballot, Heath found no enthusiasm for the effort, and it fizzled out. Both laws remain on the books and none of the anti-gay groups are working to repeal them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record, although Heath won narrow victories against gay rights in 1998 and 2000, he ultimately lost in a big way.  The same gay rights law was approved by a vote of the people of Maine in 2005.  The margin of victory was greater than any of Heath&#8217;s prior wins.  This was also the first time in US history that a statewide gay rights law was approved by popular vote.</p>
<p>After his defeat, he tried to gather signatures for another initiative to repeal the anti-discrimination law and to repeal Maine&#8217;s limited domestic partnership law.  Even though Maine makes it very easy to get initiatives on the ballot, Heath found no enthusiasm for the effort, and it fizzled out. Both laws remain on the books and none of the anti-gay groups are working to repeal them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/12/28/what-do-dan-savage-and-aftahs-mike-heath-have-in-common/#comment-82189</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=10747#comment-82189</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Paul&#039;s article about &lt;em&gt;Lawrence v. Texas&lt;/em&gt; leaves out quite a few important points however. Ex. the texas law wasn&#039;t simply about sodomy, as it only applied to &lt;em&gt;same-sex sodomy&lt;/em&gt;, not &lt;em&gt;opposite sex &lt;/em&gt;sodomy. This was the primary point of Justice O&#039;Connor&#039;s concurring opinion. And the 14th Amendment does apply in that case. Paul cites the 9th and 10th Amendments to the Constitution, but seems to forget it isn&#039;t just about rights given to the states but also&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt; the people&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;



Finally, Paul&#039;s writing implies an all to popular misconception about the US Constitution (and apparently this includes US supreme court justices). The US Constitution &lt;strong&gt;DOES NOT&lt;/strong&gt; grant rights to the people, it grants rights to the &lt;strong&gt;GOVERNMENT&lt;/strong&gt;.   The US constitution is about what the &lt;em&gt;government&lt;/em&gt; is and IS NOT allowed to do, not the people (except to the extent that it would interfere with the government&#039;s authority) are and are not allowed to do.   this fact was what the 9th Amendment was intended to emphasize.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul&#8217;s article about <em>Lawrence v. Texas</em> leaves out quite a few important points however. Ex. the texas law wasn&#8217;t simply about sodomy, as it only applied to <em>same-sex sodomy</em>, not <em>opposite sex </em>sodomy. This was the primary point of Justice O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s concurring opinion. And the 14th Amendment does apply in that case. Paul cites the 9th and 10th Amendments to the Constitution, but seems to forget it isn&#8217;t just about rights given to the states but also<strong><em> the people</em></strong></p>
<p>Finally, Paul&#8217;s writing implies an all to popular misconception about the US Constitution (and apparently this includes US supreme court justices). The US Constitution <strong>DOES NOT</strong> grant rights to the people, it grants rights to the <strong>GOVERNMENT</strong>.   The US constitution is about what the <em>government</em> is and IS NOT allowed to do, not the people (except to the extent that it would interfere with the government&#8217;s authority) are and are not allowed to do.   this fact was what the 9th Amendment was intended to emphasize.</p>
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