Comments on: NARTH says Francis Collins is mistaken about his own work

By: Boo

Boo — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:24 +0000

StraightGrandmother
This is news now because exgaywatch just got hold of a letter NARTH sent to Dr. Collins telling him that they understand his work better than he does.
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2011/11/private-narth-letter-to-dr-francis-collins-displays-arrogance/
“I would also like to know the story about the Throckmorton and NARTH breakup”
I don’t claim to know the entire story, but I was actually tangentially involved in it. Warren can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the catalyst was a pair of scandals back in the fall of 2006 wherein a pair of articles on NARTH’s website from members of their “scientific advisory committee” were discovered that advocated the bullying of gender noncomforming children (that is literally what the article did) and an even more bizarre rant about opposition to slavery and the civil rights movement being masks for Marxist political correctness. When confronted with the writings, NARTH’s response in both cases was to dig themselves in even deeper, which prompted Warren to write a series of articles on the subject and then withdraw as a speaker from their upcoming convention. If you search “schoenewolf” on this website and exgaywatch.com you’ll get the meat of it.

By: David Roberts

David Roberts — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:24 +0000

Scandal #1 - Dr. Joseph Berger (NARTH) Scandal #2 - Dr. Gerald Schoenwolf (NARTH) No doubt there was more to Warren's decision, which he can comment on if he likes, but these were pivotal issues, particularly NARTH's response to them. As I remember, it was a comment by Boo that led Timothy Kinkaid, who was writing for XGW at the time, to the Schoenwolf scandal. It's hard to believe that was 5 years ago. Then again, NARTH had not learned much when 2009 rolled by. I've not checked lately, but I believe both men remained with NARTH.

By: Zoe Brain

Zoe Brain — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:24 +0000

See this VA Senate campaign flyer. Note the misrepresentation of Dr Collins' work is now being used for political purposes of the most foetid kind. It's very disheartening for those of a conservative bent (like myself) to see what the Religious Right has done here. Deliberate, malicious lying. Bearing False Witness.

By: StraightGrandmother

StraightGrandmother — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:24 +0000

Man this is confusing, I was doing pretty good following along with the story until I got to the part about “Quinland said, blah blah blah” okay scroll back up, who is Quinland again, oh yeah PFOX, scroll back down continue reading. That saying, you can’t tell the players without a score card, it sure is apropo here. It sure would have been easier to read if up at the top of the article it listed the cast of charachters, LOL!.
I did go to most of the links, and later will go read all of them, but my question is why is Warren bringing this up now? It looks like this shindig went down last March (2011). I think I was reading here last March but I don’t remember this story. Perhaps that is Warren’s point, as he seems like he is on a NARTH EXPOSED run lately and would like to let all of us know a further misreprentation by NARTH just in case we missed it last March. It would be great if someone could do the same format as NOM EXPOSED with NARTH. Just one website dedicated to exposing NARTH, just like as is done for NOM.
I would also like to know the story about the Throckmorton and NARTH breakup. I wish Warren would write about that. I don’t even know who got dumped and who was the person who did the dumping. Did Warren walk or was he kicked out? Inquiring minds want to know. Since Warren is on such a NARTH tear right now maybe he will shed some light on that.

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:21 +0000

No, Collins did not respond to NARTH. That is significant it seems to me since he did communicate with Roberts and then cc:ed me.

By: Gus

Gus — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:21 +0000

It is not extraordinary for Creationists and Climate Change deniers to misrepresent any science.

By: David

David — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:21 +0000

How can they blame you for misleading Collins when you were only copied on the emails? Is it that the mere presence of your name on the cc line drives intelligent men to confusion?

By: ken

ken — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:21 +0000

David# ~ Nov 8, 2011 at 12:47 pm
“Is it that the mere presence of your name on the cc line drives intelligent men to confusion?”
To what “intelligent men” are you referring?
Apparently, Collin’s never responded to the NARTH letter (I doubt XGW would have kept that response secret if he did). Which I think is telling enough about Collin’s opinion of the NARTH letter.

By: Zoe Brain

Zoe Brain — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:21 +0000

In other news, dog bites man.
Warren, while I greatly appreciate your lucid explanation here, the logical setting out of the situation point-by-point, I get the impression that you’re still surprised by this.
It’s just NARTH being NARTH. It’s what they do.
They are a “scientific research organisation”. Of course they know what Dr Collins meant, and Dr Collins doesn’t. He’s just an individual, and probably some kind of anti-Christian weirdo at that, promoting the Homosexual Agenda by distorting Dr Collins’ fine work.
Let me tell you about how I got into Science. When I was at school (nearly said “when I was a schoolgirl” – which I never was, alas), I used to commit poetry. I was adequate at it. Even got invited to a Pacific Rim Poetry Seminar at Sydney’s primary humanities University, Macquarie, as the result of my published work. A big deal when you’re 14 years old.
We were discussing and de-constructing (though that term wasn’t fashionable then, this was pre-post-modernism) various works, when one of my own came up.
I listened in awe to the various Very Important People discussing my work, how it obviously showed influences from so-and-so and thus-and-such, exemplifying the technique of whatsisname with a soupcon of whosit.
None of whom I’d ever heard of.
They found subtleties and meanings within it that I’d never dreamed of. While not exactly a masterwork, it was reasonably good, if a bit raw and unpolished. Not crude, but simple and pure. Just as anger is an energy that can be harnessed to drive engines of compassion, so the torment of being trans at that age is the wellspring of a torrent of creativity that springs directly from the heart.
When I pointed this out, they dismissively informed me with a sniff that I was a mere school child, whereas they were qualified Experts. They knew what I must have meant, and I, the author, didn’t.
It was the end of the age of innocence for me, in a sense. I abandoned their power games, the charlatanry that had defiled something I valued as worthwhile and even beautiful, and while I never lost my love for language, I decided to seek for Truth elsewhere.
Warren, they know what they know. Facts are there to be manipulated, and if necessary, manufactured to order, in support of their ideas. I’ve seen far too much of this, both in anti- and pro- GLBT politics. It’s a game to them.

By: Lynn David

Lynn David — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:48:21 +0000

Well, what can you say? I’d further point out that Collins’ idea of environment is likely very much different than NARTH’s idea of environmental influences. Collins would likely look upon it in mostly biological terms, such as the environment of the womb or the environmental influences of hormones.