Comments on: Is there more to the Dakota Ary story than has been reported?

By: StraightGrandmother

StraightGrandmother — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:30:32 +0000

By: Reyn

Reyn — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:30:32 +0000

I have some respect for Dr. Throckmorton, he is one of the only evangelicals of any stripe that I have any respect for at all – and I thank him for having this blog.
A note to Pete — while I do not question whether or not Franks is gay, there is no mention of that in any article I read as a factual statement. Ary PERCEIVED him to be gay, which is a very different thing. Perception is certainly allowed. I would, for example, predict that if you could be a mouse in his private space, you would find in 10 years time (assuming he is still in the body then) that even if completely hidden from public view (closeted) Ary will be having intimate relationships with men. Why? My perception is that the level of distaste for homosexuality, particularly clothed in religion that the boy evidences is almost always based on internal struggle. It is, contrary to what many here would say, a struggle that can never be won however. Religion doesn’t create that type of hate, unless the first victim of the hate is the self. That however is my perception, and while I think that experience (I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen this play out – including two classmates from high school who eventually while I was in college approached me when I was home visiting and asked me for sex. Both married by then I would note. I refused, but they found each other and are still on the down-low.) indicates that it will be true, I could be wrong. So could Ary on Mr. Franks.
Regards,
Reyn

By: Richard Willmer

Richard Willmer — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:43 +0000

Well, Patrocles, we’d probably need a full transcript of what was said in the class before we make a sound judgement on whether Ary’s comment was a ‘legitimate argument’!
But this post is not really about a particular comment at a particular point in a particular class; it’s concerning suggestions that there was more to the situation than the comment.

By: Richard Willmer

Richard Willmer — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:43 +0000

Incidentally, I don’t think that it is accurate to say that the ‘thrust’ of this post is ‘question the veracity’ of Dakota Ary. It appears that the situation that led to Ary’s being disciplined was perhaps more complex than originally thought, and this is what this post is about.
I saw the initial post (/2011/09/23/high-school-student-opposed-to-homosexuality-will-not-have-negative-mark-on-record/) on this controversy, and, at that time, questioned whether the disciplinary action taken was appropriate (my view then was that it was not). Since that post, further information appears to have come to light (see this post); that information certainly caused me to question my initial judgement, though, like Warren, I would want know much more before arriving at a firm view.
(I take an interest as an educator myself – and one that it no stranger to having strongly held opinions expressed from time to time in my classes. Professionally, I have a ‘duty of care’ for all my students, including those who would be hurt by being branded as ‘wrong’ because of their sexual identity or orientation. Another point: in places like the UK and the USA, religious affiliation is genuinely a matter of choice, and those of us who are Christians should expect to be ‘disagreed with’ – that is ‘part of the package’, according to Christ himself; there is, however, a significant corpus of evidence that suggest that sexual identity and orientation are [at least in part] ‘intrinsic’ to a human person, and this, I believe, points to a moral obligation, under ‘natural law’, to promote respect and fair treatment.)

By: Patrocles

Patrocles — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:43 +0000

The last article in the “Dallas Voice”, quoted by Ken, seems to maintain that Ary’s remark was off topic, only caused by the accidental use of the word “Christian”.
But that’s not what Frank allegedly told his friends before. Frank (or Vann) had then said that Ary tried to devalue the teacher as a kind of insider authority on Christian affairs.
That’s a legitime argument. The teacher speaks as a kind of authority and the pupil argues that the teacher, being a promoter of homosexuality and thus not a Christian, can’t claim this authority.
– An interesting point in contemporary American thought is the inability to state positively wherefore (and thus, when) freedom of expression must be protected. (I’ve referred for that to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.)
Now, people who express an opinion do nearly always “much more than simply express an opinion” (Willmer). If we have no clue what’s the positive use of freedom of expression, we will always judge a case by this “more”, the possibly negative byproducts of expression. And then there’s no core realm in which freedom of expression is protected.
My personal idea is, that arguments are to be protected, And Ary’s remark (understood as an attempt to devaluate the teacher’s authority about Christianism) was an argument.