Comments on: CNN Belief Blog examines congruence paradigm amid Bachmann revelations

By: Jayhuck

Jayhuck — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:52:23 +0000

David B –

n 1980 Lutherans, most Episcopalians, Catholics, Evangelicals, Fundamentalists (every one who espouses the Apostles Creed, for Example) all concurred with the sinfulness of homosexual behavior and it’s disqualification for Christian leadership.

Only in print David. I know for a fact that lay people and leaders of some of those different “denominations” did not believe this and were working on changing things. How many, I suppose we will never know because until the time you mentioned, it was a crime in most states to live as a gay person so some things had to happen out of the spotlight as it were. You seem to think that the changes in these churches started with Episcopalians electing an openly gay Bishop – you’d be wrong to do that

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:52:21 +0000

David – I was thinking along the same lines. I think for now I will keep my powder dry.

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:52:21 +0000

Unitarians, I believe, do not acknowledge the Deity of Christ…which interferes with a fundamentally accepted definition of Christianity.

By: Lynn David

Lynn David — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:34 +0000

On the other side of this, I do not think what Bachmann does in his clinic is as important to his wife's campaign as the lie she may have voiced in 2006 in a debate while running for Congress. I think it is becoming rather obvious that Michele Bachmann lied concerning her statement about her knowledge of WELS teaching on the Catholic Papacy as antiChrist in 2006. In that statement during a debate she claimed that her pastor had commented that "he was absolutely appalled that someone would put that out." But part of theWELS teaching on antiChrist is that a pastor should know about the teaching and her pastor, Marcus Birkholz, had been at Salem Lutheran for 21 years in 2006. I suspect he therefore knew and was not ignorant of the teaching on the antiChrist. So then Bachmann's 2006 statement either reported a lie her pastor told her or was a lie of itself. Well, it is five years later and Pastor Birkholz is still at Salem Lutheran. The Bachmanns evidently stopped attending in 2009 and then formally left just before announcing for the Presidency. Her former pastor has said (CNN Religion Blog):

I've been asked to make no comments regarding them and their family.

And Bachmann is ducking the issue:

Bachmann was asked about her status with the church on Thursday at Reagan National Airport as she headed to catch a flight. When asked about her pastor, she asked, "Which one?" An aide quickly hustled her away, noting that they were late for a flight. The Bachmann campaign declined to immediately respond to a request for further comment Friday.

It seems the pastor has no reason to be repentant. He either told told Michele Bachmann the truth about WELS teaching or the conversation she reported in 2006 did not happen. What is being hidden in all of this is likely the lie which Bachmann spoke then. ...

By: Gene Chase

Gene Chase — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:34 +0000

@Warren, Moberly's non-religious presentation of reparative therapy was in Psychogenesis: The Early Development of Gender Identity. As an Eastern Orthodox believer, she then showed it to be a Christian approach in Homosexuality: A New Christian Ethic. Although both books came out in 1983, I think that the first-mentioned is prior in both conception and printing. Elizabeth was a theoretician, not a clinician, so she never in fact had clients on which to test her theory. If you're writing a history, I have original correspondence from her to Nicolosi complaining that he appropriated her theory without any credit to her. In my opinion, this is why she got fed up and left the field of psychoanalysis in favor of researching things like homeopathic cures for cancer.

By: Gene Chase

Gene Chase — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:34 +0000

I tried to comment at the CNN article, but gave up because it filters by stop-words embedded in other words. So here is my would-be post to there.
Dan Gilgoff’s article confuses two terms. He should do his homework.
“Reparative therapy” is help that assumes that homosexual acting out is a reparative drive, according to its creator, Elizabeth Moberly. It is not faith-based.
“Conversion therapy” is faith-based help that relies on the benefits of following God, such as that proposed by Jewish author Arthur Goldberg in his book Light in the Closet. It is not uniquely Christian.
And now to this audience, I’m aware that Nicolosi confused Moberly’s term and appropriated it for his own brand of therapy. Tot homines, quot sententiae, as the Romans used to say: There are as many opinions as there are men.
Do I help people via Christian discipleship (as a kind of conversion therapy)? Always. Do I explore possible reparative drives? Sometimes. Do I recommend cognitive-behavior interventions? Sometimes.
Journalism succeeds by over-simplifying. Therapy does not.

By: Teresa

Teresa — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:33 +0000

Dave G. didn’t say that Teresa. He said ‘change’ meant the cessation of same sex sexual attractions. he is talking about 2 distinct concepts: congruence of religious beliefs and change of sexual orientation.

ken, thanks for bringing this to my attention. You’re absolutely correct.
DAVE G., I apologize for incorrectly reading your prior Comment.

By: Dave

Dave — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:33 +0000

Hi Gene,
You mentioned several therapies … but not SITF .. I was wondering if you agree with the principles of SITF?
Thanks,
Dave

By: StraightGrandmother

StraightGrandmother — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:33 +0000

Theresa, I have to admit when I first came over to this blog I didn’t understnd you and mostly didn’t agree with you, it is a surprise to me how I have changed my opinions and you and I have ened up at the same place. I agreed with everything you wrote except in this sentence I wish there were a better term for “condition”

but, we agree that we didn’t choose this condition, we’re pretty certain it’s not gonna change, and we don’t have to apologize to anyone for being gay.

I don’t know what that better word would be an perhaps I am just being to nit picky as it was really well written.

By: Jayhuck

Jayhuck — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:33 +0000

Dave G –

The most effective way appears to be a change of convictions to accept the Christian world-view….. This must include changing one’s support systems (friends, associates, primary relationships) to the Christian community that accepts God’s promise of forgiveness and a new life for those who change their life-direction.

I think you mean to accept the “Christian world view” as its understood by only some Christians. Obviously not all Christians share your understanding of homosexuality 😉