Comments on: New study: Sexual behavior changes but not sexual orientation

By: stephen

stephen — Thu, 31 May 2018 01:08:43 +0000

Wow. Welcome to the 60s.

By: stephen

stephen — Thu, 31 May 2018 01:08:43 +0000

SG, Teresa writes from the human vantage that most of us enjoy: homosexuality is not a choice it’s an adjective. (It makes me crazy when it’s used as a noun to define us but that’s only because I make my living writing)
It describes an aspect of one’s life.
The most important aspect is that of affection. As a gay man I relate to men in an affectional way that I don’t to women. Not that I don’t value and cherish and respect women: but I don’t make the same emotional connection with them as I do with my own gender. This is why the cure the gay racket is so destructive. It attacks the very heart of our being. By making this dispute be about who or what one does naughty time with (folks around here seem to lead way sheltered lives so I will skip the more accurate sex language so I don’t cause terminal shock) our enemies, which includes the ex-gay racket- seek to devalue our lives and loves.
This dispute is not about sex. You must understand that gay people have been so traumatized by the society at large that many of us have embraced an outrageous sex life as a means of defining our personhood. Plus, in the US men are bred to be pussy hounds. Translate that to gay.
Let me be clear: any kind of change therapy is a racket. It is the recovered memory of our time. Have we forgotten what damage that did? You want me to show you on a puppet? To my great despair, the only Catholic priest actually to go to jail was sent there on ‘recovered memory’. The man was a prickly thorn in the side of the Boston establishment. A gay man who renounced his sex to service disadvantaged youths who got too caught up in his role as savior.
W Throck’s posting on his review is instructive: it told me what I already knew from experience. Will a thoughtful exploration of the evidence make any difference to our teabagging fundies? They don’t believe in evolution, they don’t believe in global warming, they don’t believe in the Republican devastation of our economy, they don’t believe in empirical evidence as it contradicts their world view: anti science, anti fact.
Conservative evangelicals (I still don’t understand how such a construct is possible) are going to have to start explaining to the rest of us how up is down and right is left. And I, for one, will not be forgiving.

By: StraightGrandmother

StraightGrandmother — Thu, 31 May 2018 01:08:43 +0000

Stephen

This is why the cure the gay racket is so destructive. It attacks the very heart of our being

Let me be clear: any kind of change therapy is a racket. It is the recovered memory of our time.

I don’t know if I agree with you on these two thoughts. But then I don’t know if I disagree with you either. I follow this website to learn and I still haven’t figured it out.
What concerns me is that the big organizations doing SOCE do not provide credible research on their success percentages, with a clear definition of what a *success* is.
I am also concerned about the mixing of psychology and religion, that concerns me, and for the most part these cure the gay outfits are religious based. I think it is a lot easier and probably better for you to change your religion (don’t forget religion is a choice), and there are many churches now that accept and affirm people who are gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender, than to teach you how to suppress your natural sexual orientation, or alternately go through life celibate.
But say there are a very very few people who put their religion ahead of their natural sexual orientation, there should be research and help for them, shouldn’t there be? And if so is that then a racket?
The problem is, because these SOCE organizations are religious based they are only directing people to the Change Your Behavior plan and that is where I have a problem, because that is only the best plan for a very very few people.

By: stephen

stephen — Thu, 31 May 2018 01:08:43 +0000

SG: There is no discussion of ‘change’ unless Jesus is involved.

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 30 May 2018 22:07:52 +0000

In reply to Stuart Kenny. While I can't give personal advice in this forum, I can say that what you describe is a fairly common situation which is addressed by sexual identity counselors. No easy answers, and none that a SI therapist would provide as a matter of course.

By: StraightGrandmother

StraightGrandmother — Wed, 30 May 2018 21:33:34 +0000

Theresa, I am happy for you if you feel that you have lived a good life, and that you feel you did the right thing by adhering to your faith and living for the most part a chaste life even though you are a lesbian. I really am truly happy for you. If you are happy, I am happy for you.
Perhaps you are writing from a different generation than today. Your generalizations of most people living like you, could be true for the eras in which you have lived. I have no data to back it up, however my hunch is most early middle aged and younger Fundamentalist Christians don’t live like you. I am guessing that they move away from their Fundamentalist church and find more accepting and affirming churches which there are now, and that they seek to find true love with a same sex partner. And now with same sex marriage being legal in some places, many if not most, would desire that as well. I think the internet has been a game changer. Gays and lesbains are no longer living in isolation. There are gay pride parades that attract 10,000 people now. Gays, Lesbians, Bi-Sexual and Transgender people are able to connect with people via the internet and to learn about their big wonderful varied community, the internet provides positive reinforcement to them that it is okay to be gay. I am thinking times have changed.

By: Mary

Mary — Wed, 30 May 2018 21:33:34 +0000

Jayhuck,
You still don’t value the lives of those who have changed?

By: StraightGrandmother

StraightGrandmother — Wed, 30 May 2018 21:33:34 +0000

I started on page 41 of the research by Yarhouse and read the whole thing. I got down to the very end and read the first note where he gives thanks to the Straight Spouse Network for advertizing his survey on their website. If memory serves me, I do recall Warren that this group was mentioned by you as well as a good source for mixed marriages of a sexual minority marrying an opposite sex spouse. So it is not surprising your results are lining up with his results.
The other thing I noticed is he sure does reference himself a lot, meaning he points to other studies of his. Next a question I do not believe I have a firm understanding of “Peer Reviewed” Would you consider this Yarhouse study to be peer reviewed?
Finally since Yathouse’s study included the hetrosexual spouce even though they are not currently married to the sexual minority I wonder what the results would have shown if the study was advertized on websites like Truth Wins Out or pro-gay type websites. Point being that Exodus and perhaps Straight Spouse Network is not really representative of, oh lets call them mixed sexual identity marriages. Yarhouse opened the door and let people who are not currently in a mixed sexual identity marriage participate but I question if he should have done that. Aand if he did then he should have perhaps gone to other more pro-gay type of websites to advertize for respondents as long as he opened that door.

By: Throbert McGee

Throbert McGee — Wed, 30 May 2018 21:33:34 +0000

If I’m not mistaken, the original “Kinsey Scale” was purely about behavior, and reflected the average number-per-year of real-life, “consummated” homosexual acts with another person. (Thus, there was no attempt at all to quantify fantasy life or feelings of erotic attraction.)
So, a “Kinsey 1” was a NOT a guy who was predominately attracted to woman, but occasionally had solo masturbatory fantasies about other men — it was a guy who had an actual homosexual encounter with another man maybe once or twice per decade!
I understand that a substantially revised version of the Kinsey Scale is now used, but I just found it a little ironic that the original one actually served to promulgate the exact same confusion we deal with here in every single “change” thread — about whether homosexuality is defined by outward actions alone, or by internal desires!

By: Teresa

Teresa — Wed, 30 May 2018 21:33:34 +0000

Could we all step back here a moment, including me in that stepping back?
There is another voice here, and I’m part of that voice. And, it bothers me to hear someone say of my life

Well no love for you then

I’m probably older than many of this Blog, and I’m same-sex attracted. I’ve led in most part a chaste life, and a life of commitment to a family member of the same gender as I. That life had nothing to do with sex, but helping one another, and transforming me in the process. I was the proverbial care-giver near the end … but, I received far more than I ever gave. I learned what a giving heart can do, and the difference it can make.
Frankly, as David B., has mentioned, this is what many of us did throughout the centuries. And, again, I’d venture to say most homosexuals still live life as most single str8 persons do: no fanfare, no wedding bells, sometimes lonely, most times not. We mostly don’t differentiate ourselves from other single persons, unless it’s for purpose. No, we’re not out and we’re not proud … but, we’re here. We’re part of the great tapestry of life, most threads being families, but are threads matter in the whole of that tapestry.
Our Faith is of paramount value and concern, and we’ve chosen to live a life in congruence with that Faith. And, no, I”m not a self-hating gay. In fact, I’m personally quite happy that I am same-sex attracted. It’s given me opportunities and gifts that str8 persons don’t have, as they have gifts and opportunities that I don’t have.
I’m not a victim in all this, and I dislike others treating me like I’m a victim or that I’m someone’s project … that I need some special handouts because I’m a homosexual. Certainly, I would wish to be treated with respect and dignity, as I try to treat others … but, I ain’t a saint in any of this. I’ve screwed up my share of stuff, just as all of us have. I can yell and scream with the best of them, but at the end of the day, it’s to no purpose.
Is this really so hard to understand that the vast majority of homosexuals live life pretty much on life’s terms? We’re not out to upset the current social fabric of a str8 world. We lead quiet lives … and, I might add, are not quiet lives of desperation. For the most part, as with str8 persons, they are lives of fulfillment and joy, sadness and grief, laughter and tears; without all the fanfare of husbands, wives, or children.
We’re the ‘silent majority’ in the minority. We have no voice. We’re not the Michele Bachmann’s and we’re not the Wayne Besen’s. We’re simply your neighbors. We’re not anyone’s enemy, and we don’t want to upset anyone’s apple cart. We’re here, and we matter … even if you don’t know it. The One I’m in love with does. And, that’s all that matters to me.
Sorry, for the diversion. On with the games.