Comments on: Sexual identity: Wall Street Journal reports on APA report and sexual identity therapy

By: Ken

Ken — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:51:54 +0000

Madison# ~ Jun 24, 2011 at 11:22 pm
“But seriously, you’re not even trying to understand what I said. Why is that? I’m making a simple comparison that someone we all respect made a radical shift in the past couple of years ”
And I’m saying the shift I’ve seen isn’t as radical as you claim it is. When you examine the causes of that shift, it isn’t radical at all.
“Things change. But in your commitment to disagree with me (and any hetero-affirming folks), you can’t see that (or don’t want to).”
And I’m saying I haven’t seen any such change in NARTH. And I don’t believe you when you simply “say” NARTH isn’t as bad as it was years ago (I see it as worse). Show me evidence of this improvement at NARTH.
Further, my issues with NARTH have never been that it is “hetero-affirming.” My issues with NARTH are that it is deceptive. That its positions are based not on science, but on the biases of it’s members. That its goals do not appear to be to advance research into sexual orientation, but rather to denigrate and misrepresent anyone or any research that does not agree with its policies. that it enables bigotry and prejudice against sexual minorities. I have many issues with NARTH, however, it being “hetero-affirming” isn’t one of them.
Yet again, rather that bother to ASK about my position on something, you just jump to the wrong conclusions.

By: Ken

Ken — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:51:54 +0000

Maddeson# ~ Jun 27, 2011 at 1:31 am
hmmm. missed this.
“If you’re going to accuse me of making a wrong conclusion, please cite.”
I did cite it. your conclusion about MY position on NARTH is wrong. My issues with NARTH have nothing to do with it being “hetero-affirming.”
You have done this several times. Made incorrect assumptions about me and my position on various issues. You have also made accusations about me you have yet to back up.

By: William

William — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:51:53 +0000

I would agree with Madison. There is evidence that "therapy" can change a person's sexual orientation. But that evidence is similar to the evidence for the Loch Ness Monster: abundant in quantity, but exceedingly poor in quality..

By: Richard Willmer

Richard Willmer — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:51:51 +0000

I find this article very interesting. It certainly seems reasonable to me to make clear to those who are ‘uncomfortable’ with the idea of having a same-sex relationship that they have genuine choices when it comes to how they handle their situation. I’m not sure if this amounts to a ‘change in identity’ – though it is the case that how one chooses to act can profoundly affect how one understands self and others, and that this ‘shapes’ a person’s place within a community (and the Christian understanding of ‘identity’ is a communal, as well as an individual, matter).
As for ‘celibacy’: I consider this a ‘calling’ (and think that the term ‘celibacy’ must be used with care). By contrast, chastity is a discipline that is centred upon the idea respecting self and others. One of the big discussions currently ranging within the Anglican Church (and, in a much more muted fashion, in the Catholic Church) is whether there are circumstances (and what those circumstances might be) where same-sex relationships can/should be deemed to fit within the definition of chaste behaviour. I’m unashamedly in the (so-called) ‘liberal’ camp on this point (in case anyone hadn’t guessed that!), but do respect those who, as a matter of ‘conscience’, and motivated by ‘care’, take a different line.
Shortly before he became Pope, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger said this in 2004 about those whom he would describe as ‘homosexual persons’: “Above all, we must have great respect for these people … who want to find their own way of correct living.” He went on to say that he did not approve of some form of ‘gay marriage’; however, what he did say does indicate a belief that sincere moral searching is always, regardless of whether it leads to what might be deemed a ‘change in identity’, ipso facto of value.

By: ken

ken — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:51:51 +0000

Christopher Rosik# ~ Jun 15, 2011 at 9:23 pm
Are there any studies regarding SOCE outcomes you feel the APA Task force should have considered but didn’t?