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	<title>
	Comments on: A Parent&#039;s Guide to Preventing Homosexuality refers to George Rekers work with Kirk Murphy	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Throbert McGee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91296</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Throbert McGee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91296</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Here&#039;s my take on the ex-gay position, which really only arose after the Stonewall Riots &#8230; STAY IN THE CLOSET.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Not only &quot;stay in the closet,&quot; but failing that -- STAY IN THE GAY GHETTOS of San Francisco and NYC and other large cities.
I mean, the Briggs Initiative was a reaction to the scary possibility of openly homosexual people coming out of the urban &quot;gay ghetto&quot; niches and teaching in ordinary public schools. So out-of-the-closet gays might have been tolerable if they had remained clustered in a few small neighborhoods in major metropolitan areas, but being out-of-the-closet in suburbia and farm country was just too much.
P.S. I assume all of the regulars here are familiar with the Briggs Initiative, but for the lurkers, here&#039;s a quick scoop: (1) It was a right-wing California measure against gay teachers in public schools that went to the ballot in 1978 but failed to pass. (2) It failed in part because the high-profile Republican politician Ronald Reagan denounced it. (3) Reagan&#039;s opposition to the Briggs measure led to a wave of optimism among conservative gays that helped launch the Log Cabin Republicans.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Here&#8217;s my take on the ex-gay position, which really only arose after the Stonewall Riots &#8230; STAY IN THE CLOSET.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not only &#8220;stay in the closet,&#8221; but failing that &#8212; STAY IN THE GAY GHETTOS of San Francisco and NYC and other large cities.<br />
I mean, the Briggs Initiative was a reaction to the scary possibility of openly homosexual people coming out of the urban &#8220;gay ghetto&#8221; niches and teaching in ordinary public schools. So out-of-the-closet gays might have been tolerable if they had remained clustered in a few small neighborhoods in major metropolitan areas, but being out-of-the-closet in suburbia and farm country was just too much.<br />
P.S. I assume all of the regulars here are familiar with the Briggs Initiative, but for the lurkers, here&#8217;s a quick scoop: (1) It was a right-wing California measure against gay teachers in public schools that went to the ballot in 1978 but failed to pass. (2) It failed in part because the high-profile Republican politician Ronald Reagan denounced it. (3) Reagan&#8217;s opposition to the Briggs measure led to a wave of optimism among conservative gays that helped launch the Log Cabin Republicans.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Teresa		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91301</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Teresa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91301</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;My question is this &#8211; if one is chaste as you and others are, why do you feel you have to explain your personal motivation for being chaste to anyone?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ann, we are social beings after all.  Why wouldn&#039;t I explain being gay and chaste to my close friends?  Why shouldn&#039;t others, like Eve Tushnet, not be out and proud for being gay and chaste?  It shows other gay people that struggle with same-sex attractions, that are others ways to live life.  You can be a single, gay, chaste person; or, be in a partnered relationship that is gay and chaste.
Why do people have to tell me their married, divorced, have children ... and, they&#039;re not even friends of mine?
&lt;blockquote&gt;Being attracted to the same gender is not the only reason a woman would be chaste.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ann, you certainly are correct here; but, I&#039;d be willing to bet if someone said to you, &quot;oh, you&#039;re probably gay, that&#039;s why you&#039;re not married&quot; ... you&#039;d correct them on that notion.  If you wouldn&#039;t, kudos to you ... if you did correct them, why?
This is off topic; so, I&#039;ll just leave it at this; but, I&#039;d sure like to hear your comment on this.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My question is this &#8211; if one is chaste as you and others are, why do you feel you have to explain your personal motivation for being chaste to anyone?</p></blockquote>
<p>Ann, we are social beings after all.  Why wouldn&#8217;t I explain being gay and chaste to my close friends?  Why shouldn&#8217;t others, like Eve Tushnet, not be out and proud for being gay and chaste?  It shows other gay people that struggle with same-sex attractions, that are others ways to live life.  You can be a single, gay, chaste person; or, be in a partnered relationship that is gay and chaste.<br />
Why do people have to tell me their married, divorced, have children &#8230; and, they&#8217;re not even friends of mine?</p>
<blockquote><p>Being attracted to the same gender is not the only reason a woman would be chaste.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ann, you certainly are correct here; but, I&#8217;d be willing to bet if someone said to you, &#8220;oh, you&#8217;re probably gay, that&#8217;s why you&#8217;re not married&#8221; &#8230; you&#8217;d correct them on that notion.  If you wouldn&#8217;t, kudos to you &#8230; if you did correct them, why?<br />
This is off topic; so, I&#8217;ll just leave it at this; but, I&#8217;d sure like to hear your comment on this.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91298</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91298</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;You do realize, Ann, you&#039;ve just supported the idea of &quot;being in the closet&quot;, right? Does &quot;our being in the closet&quot; make str8, single people&#039;s lives easier? Does it make everyone&#039;s life easier?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Teresa,
I was sharing with you how others I know have handled intrusive questioning about their private life.  I think it is very unfair to ask personal questions of anyone or make assumptions if they do not volunteer personal information.  That is what I was trying to articulate.  You have expressed frustration about people&#039;s reaction when you tell them you are gay or homosexual (think you have used both words).  As to your friends, of course, those are the people you should tell and share and gain inspiration from.  Other people who do not know you and are being nosey - I don&#039;t think you owe them any explanation.  I think it should be your choice as to what you want to share with anyone.  I only share with people I know and trust and have my well being at heart.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Ann, you certainly are correct here; but, I&#039;d be willing to bet if someone said to you, &quot;oh, you&#039;re probably gay, that&#039;s why you&#039;re not married&quot; &#8230; you&#039;d correct them on that notion. If you wouldn&#039;t, kudos to you &#8230; if you did correct them, why?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Hypothetically, if that question or assumption were posed to me, I would let them know that if I ever do get married that I will give them plenty of notice to buy a new dress or tuxedo for the event.  I doubt they would ever be invited though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You do realize, Ann, you&#8217;ve just supported the idea of &#8220;being in the closet&#8221;, right? Does &#8220;our being in the closet&#8221; make str8, single people&#8217;s lives easier? Does it make everyone&#8217;s life easier?</p></blockquote>
<p>Teresa,<br />
I was sharing with you how others I know have handled intrusive questioning about their private life.  I think it is very unfair to ask personal questions of anyone or make assumptions if they do not volunteer personal information.  That is what I was trying to articulate.  You have expressed frustration about people&#8217;s reaction when you tell them you are gay or homosexual (think you have used both words).  As to your friends, of course, those are the people you should tell and share and gain inspiration from.  Other people who do not know you and are being nosey &#8211; I don&#8217;t think you owe them any explanation.  I think it should be your choice as to what you want to share with anyone.  I only share with people I know and trust and have my well being at heart.</p>
<blockquote><p>Ann, you certainly are correct here; but, I&#8217;d be willing to bet if someone said to you, &#8220;oh, you&#8217;re probably gay, that&#8217;s why you&#8217;re not married&#8221; &#8230; you&#8217;d correct them on that notion. If you wouldn&#8217;t, kudos to you &#8230; if you did correct them, why?</p></blockquote>
<p>Hypothetically, if that question or assumption were posed to me, I would let them know that if I ever do get married that I will give them plenty of notice to buy a new dress or tuxedo for the event.  I doubt they would ever be invited though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zoe Brain		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91307</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe Brain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91307</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ann wrote: &lt;blockquote&gt;My friend&#039;s daughter was born without most of her internal organs and a vagina that closed at a little over half an inch.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Typical for high-grade PAIS syndrome, though could be any one of a number of other Intersex conditions.
&lt;blockquote&gt;My niece has a similar medical condition&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, there&#039;s far more Intersexed people than many realise.
If it is PAIS, then your niece and your friend&#039;s daughter have 46XY chromosomes. And that means that in the state of Texas, they&#039;re both male, because of Littleton v. Prange (9 S.W.3d 223 (Tex. App. 1999), cert. denied, 531 U.S. 872 (2000)) and the recent ruling on Nikki Araguz. Because God made them male, no matter what they look like or what surgery they might have had.
By venue-shopping, any marriage they may contract can be voided by any interested party - insurers, bankers, former spouses, relatives of former spouses...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann wrote: </p>
<blockquote><p>My friend&#8217;s daughter was born without most of her internal organs and a vagina that closed at a little over half an inch.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Typical for high-grade PAIS syndrome, though could be any one of a number of other Intersex conditions.</p>
<blockquote><p>My niece has a similar medical condition</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, there&#8217;s far more Intersexed people than many realise.<br />
If it is PAIS, then your niece and your friend&#8217;s daughter have 46XY chromosomes. And that means that in the state of Texas, they&#8217;re both male, because of Littleton v. Prange (9 S.W.3d 223 (Tex. App. 1999), cert. denied, 531 U.S. 872 (2000)) and the recent ruling on Nikki Araguz. Because God made them male, no matter what they look like or what surgery they might have had.<br />
By venue-shopping, any marriage they may contract can be voided by any interested party &#8211; insurers, bankers, former spouses, relatives of former spouses&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91299</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91299</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Teresa,
My friend&#039;s daughter  was born without most of her internal organs and a vagina that closed at a little over half an inch.  She is one of the most beautiful and spiritual people I have ever known.  She has had medical procedures that were not successful and came to the decision that she would remain single and live a life that she considered full and valuable - not answer to how others thought she should live.  If someone asks her why don&#039;t you date and why don&#039;t you marry, etc. - she does not go into detail about her reasons, she just says, oh, that is not for me and moves on with other conversation.   My niece has a similar medical condition and she has married and since divorced - not because of her inability to have intercourse but because he would not work and she didn&#039;t want to keep supporting him.  My question is this - if one is chaste as you and others are, why do you feel you have to explain your personal motivation for being chaste to anyone?  Being attracted to the same gender is not the only reason a woman would be chaste.  I love men and hold them in the highest esteem, however, I think most women, at one time or another, have contemplated the idea of being happier on their own then trying to understand men.  :-D]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teresa,<br />
My friend&#8217;s daughter  was born without most of her internal organs and a vagina that closed at a little over half an inch.  She is one of the most beautiful and spiritual people I have ever known.  She has had medical procedures that were not successful and came to the decision that she would remain single and live a life that she considered full and valuable &#8211; not answer to how others thought she should live.  If someone asks her why don&#8217;t you date and why don&#8217;t you marry, etc. &#8211; she does not go into detail about her reasons, she just says, oh, that is not for me and moves on with other conversation.   My niece has a similar medical condition and she has married and since divorced &#8211; not because of her inability to have intercourse but because he would not work and she didn&#8217;t want to keep supporting him.  My question is this &#8211; if one is chaste as you and others are, why do you feel you have to explain your personal motivation for being chaste to anyone?  Being attracted to the same gender is not the only reason a woman would be chaste.  I love men and hold them in the highest esteem, however, I think most women, at one time or another, have contemplated the idea of being happier on their own then trying to understand men.  😀</p>
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		<title>
		By: Teresa		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Teresa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;My question is this &#8211; if one is chaste as you and others are, why do you feel you have to explain your personal motivation for being chaste to anyone? &lt;strong&gt;Being attracted to the same gender is not the only reason a woman would be chaste.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Sorry, I couldn&#039;t resist this last thought.
You do realize, Ann, you&#039;ve just supported the idea of &quot;being in the closet&quot;, right?  Does &quot;our being in the closet&quot; make str8, single people&#039;s lives easier?  Does it make everyone&#039;s life easier?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My question is this &#8211; if one is chaste as you and others are, why do you feel you have to explain your personal motivation for being chaste to anyone? <strong>Being attracted to the same gender is not the only reason a woman would be chaste.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, I couldn&#8217;t resist this last thought.<br />
You do realize, Ann, you&#8217;ve just supported the idea of &#8220;being in the closet&#8221;, right?  Does &#8220;our being in the closet&#8221; make str8, single people&#8217;s lives easier?  Does it make everyone&#8217;s life easier?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;(3) Reagan&#039;s opposition to the Briggs measure led to a wave of optimism among conservative gays that helped launch the Log Cabin Republicans.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
well... yes and no
Log Cabin formed prior to Reagan&#039;s announcement and lobbied him to do so.  But his article definitely contributed to their continued existence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>(3) Reagan&#8217;s opposition to the Briggs measure led to a wave of optimism among conservative gays that helped launch the Log Cabin Republicans.</p></blockquote>
<p>well&#8230; yes and no<br />
Log Cabin formed prior to Reagan&#8217;s announcement and lobbied him to do so.  But his article definitely contributed to their continued existence.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91305</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91305</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Does &quot;our being in the closet&quot; make str8, single people&#039;s lives easier? Does it make everyone&#039;s life easier?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Teresa,
Not sure how to understand the term &quot;being in the closet&quot; - do you mean trying to have relationships you have no interest in just to please people or  not telling anyone about relationships you desire to have but have chosen not to, or both, or something else?  I don&#039;t think it would make my life any easier either way.
Most people do not understand the state of mind (homosexual) that you and others have referred to before.  They understand homosexuality as it relates to having sex with the same gender but not the state of mind (homosexual) - it is a mystery that I hope someday can be understood, rather than ignorantly opined on, by those who do not experience it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Does &#8220;our being in the closet&#8221; make str8, single people&#8217;s lives easier? Does it make everyone&#8217;s life easier?</p></blockquote>
<p>Teresa,<br />
Not sure how to understand the term &#8220;being in the closet&#8221; &#8211; do you mean trying to have relationships you have no interest in just to please people or  not telling anyone about relationships you desire to have but have chosen not to, or both, or something else?  I don&#8217;t think it would make my life any easier either way.<br />
Most people do not understand the state of mind (homosexual) that you and others have referred to before.  They understand homosexuality as it relates to having sex with the same gender but not the state of mind (homosexual) &#8211; it is a mystery that I hope someday can be understood, rather than ignorantly opined on, by those who do not experience it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Teresa		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91295</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Teresa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91295</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;But if you operate solely from a &quot;sinful behavior&quot; paradigm, all that matters is behavior.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Timothy, that&#039;s not been my experience.  Being chaste, but still being gay, is still quite unacceptable to these people.  Also, the alone behavior (masturbation, etc.) would probably be more acceptable to these people, just don&#039;t tell us if your gay.  Being out and chaste ... they don&#039;t know what to do with this.  In their minds, we&#039;re perverted, deviant, a danger to society in some amorphous way.
Here&#039;s my take on the ex-gay position, which really only arose after the Stonewall Riots ... STAY IN THE CLOSET.  If we&#039;re in the closet, and aren&#039;t too limp-wristed or butch, then they don&#039;t have to worry about civil rights for us.  If we happen to want to keep company with other closeted gays, and get beat up, hung on a fence, disfigured or killed, get fired, kicked out of our home ... well, it&#039;s our fault.
Though the ex-gay world, because of poor results of gay to str8, is trying to be &#039;appear&#039; more accepting by the newer phrase:  &quot;the opposite of homosexuality is holiness&quot; ... and that catchy little distancing term:  &quot;I&#039;m a person with same-sex attractions&quot; ... in my mind, it&#039;s still all about the closet.  Don&#039;t Ask, Don&#039;t Tell ... and, at all costs ... Never Tell.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But if you operate solely from a &#8220;sinful behavior&#8221; paradigm, all that matters is behavior.</p></blockquote>
<p>Timothy, that&#8217;s not been my experience.  Being chaste, but still being gay, is still quite unacceptable to these people.  Also, the alone behavior (masturbation, etc.) would probably be more acceptable to these people, just don&#8217;t tell us if your gay.  Being out and chaste &#8230; they don&#8217;t know what to do with this.  In their minds, we&#8217;re perverted, deviant, a danger to society in some amorphous way.<br />
Here&#8217;s my take on the ex-gay position, which really only arose after the Stonewall Riots &#8230; STAY IN THE CLOSET.  If we&#8217;re in the closet, and aren&#8217;t too limp-wristed or butch, then they don&#8217;t have to worry about civil rights for us.  If we happen to want to keep company with other closeted gays, and get beat up, hung on a fence, disfigured or killed, get fired, kicked out of our home &#8230; well, it&#8217;s our fault.<br />
Though the ex-gay world, because of poor results of gay to str8, is trying to be &#8216;appear&#8217; more accepting by the newer phrase:  &#8220;the opposite of homosexuality is holiness&#8221; &#8230; and that catchy little distancing term:  &#8220;I&#8217;m a person with same-sex attractions&#8221; &#8230; in my mind, it&#8217;s still all about the closet.  Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell &#8230; and, at all costs &#8230; Never Tell.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/06/07/a-parents-guide-to-preventing-homosexuality-refers-to-george-rekers-work-with-kirk-murphy/#comment-91303</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9477#comment-91303</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;    But if you operate solely from a &quot;sinful behavior&quot; paradigm, all that matters is behavior.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Timothy, that&#039;s not been my experience. Being chaste, but still being gay, is still quite unacceptable to these people. Also, the alone behavior (masturbation, etc.) would probably be more acceptable to these people, just don&#039;t tell us if your gay. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, Teresa, you make a very good point.
I guess I should have clarified that if you operate solely from a &quot;sinful behavior&quot; paradigm, all that matters is that your asserted intention towards behavior (and actual behavior, to a secondary extent).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<blockquote><p>    But if you operate solely from a &#8220;sinful behavior&#8221; paradigm, all that matters is behavior.</p></blockquote>
<p>Timothy, that&#8217;s not been my experience. Being chaste, but still being gay, is still quite unacceptable to these people. Also, the alone behavior (masturbation, etc.) would probably be more acceptable to these people, just don&#8217;t tell us if your gay. </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, Teresa, you make a very good point.<br />
I guess I should have clarified that if you operate solely from a &#8220;sinful behavior&#8221; paradigm, all that matters is that your asserted intention towards behavior (and actual behavior, to a secondary extent).</p>
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