Comments on: David Bahati: Hearings took place today on Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/ A [retired] college psychology professor's observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues Wed, 30 May 2018 17:29:13 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.3 By: Richard Willmer https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-73581 Wed, 30 May 2018 17:29:13 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-73581 ‘Maazi’
I am genuinely interested to hear you explanation regarding these two statements of yours:-
1. “Contrary to Western media propaganda, Gays who keep their heads down and do their stuff privately will be left alone …”
and
2. “… be rest assured [sic], the law (in revised form) will be passed so as to protect Ugandan cultural values.”
They are surely inconsistent.
Furthermore, you clearly hold significantly different views to Bahati, so shouldn’t you be profoundly grateful for the pressure that stopped the Bill being passed back in its original (and, as I type, current) form in late 2009? (It was said by many at the time that its passage was extremely likely, but for the international outcry that led M7 to abandon it.)

]]> By: David Blakeslee https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-49711 Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:35:01 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-49711 I am not sure this is the best place to post this…but I’ll start here:

Although, there is no clear-cut verse in Qur’an that categorically suggests killing of homosexuals, sayings of Prophet Muhammad suggests three types of sentences, and among that one is death. Bilal Philips is suggesting, based on his opinion on the Qur’anic/Prophetic principles of society. He is not advising the Islamic judiciary to kill any gay person they found, but what he is “suggesting” is judicial punishment of death sentence for those who confess or are seen “performing homosexual acts” by “four reliable witnesses without any doubt.”
The essence of Islamic laws is to protect the life of human beings. And it happens that sometimes killing of a person can save thousands and sometimes millions of lives. The Islamic judiciary can punish a person with death sentence to save others’ lives.

I think this is a quote from a prominent Muslim in Canada.
I found it here, in an interesting article criticizing a public school for facilitating Muslim prayers on Fridays which forbid “unclean” adolescent girls from participating.
http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/4259/28/

]]> By: David Blakeslee https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-73586 Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:35:01 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-73586 I am not sure this is the best place to post this…but I’ll start here:

Although, there is no clear-cut verse in Qur’an that categorically suggests killing of homosexuals, sayings of Prophet Muhammad suggests three types of sentences, and among that one is death. Bilal Philips is suggesting, based on his opinion on the Qur’anic/Prophetic principles of society. He is not advising the Islamic judiciary to kill any gay person they found, but what he is “suggesting” is judicial punishment of death sentence for those who confess or are seen “performing homosexual acts” by “four reliable witnesses without any doubt.”
The essence of Islamic laws is to protect the life of human beings. And it happens that sometimes killing of a person can save thousands and sometimes millions of lives. The Islamic judiciary can punish a person with death sentence to save others’ lives.

I think this is a quote from a prominent Muslim in Canada.
I found it here, in an interesting article criticizing a public school for facilitating Muslim prayers on Fridays which forbid “unclean” adolescent girls from participating.
http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/4259/28/

]]> By: Richard Willmer https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-49710 Sun, 08 May 2011 14:57:44 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-49710 ‘Maazi’
I am genuinely interested to hear you explanation regarding these two statements of yours:-
1. “Contrary to Western media propaganda, Gays who keep their heads down and do their stuff privately will be left alone …”
and
2. “… be rest assured [sic], the law (in revised form) will be passed so as to protect Ugandan cultural values.”
They are surely inconsistent.
Furthermore, you clearly hold significantly different views to Bahati, so shouldn’t you be profoundly grateful for the pressure that stopped the Bill being passed back in its original (and, as I type, current) form in late 2009? (It was said by many at the time that its passage was extremely likely, but for the international outcry that led M7 to abandon it.)

]]> By: Richard Willmer https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-49709 Sun, 08 May 2011 07:09:51 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-49709 Indeed, Wendy, the comparison is defective for two reasons:-
1. Uganda is contemplating new discriminatory laws; Saudi Arabia is not.
2. Uganda receives aid from the US and EU; Saudi Arabia does not.
Also: the Bahati Bill, as drafted, has some uniquely savage and totalitarian features (let us not forget that combining the Clause about informing with the notion of a ‘serial offender’ could, at least in theory, lead to death by hanging for repeat ‘non-informers’).
But I’m still interested to hear ‘Maazi’s’ explanation regarding his apparently conflicting statements.

]]> By: Wendy Leigh https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-49708 Sun, 08 May 2011 04:27:26 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-49708 There is no comparison between Saudi Arabia and Uganda except perhaps, Idi Amin and, he’s dead. I think similar could be arranged for those who seek to replicate his rule.

]]> By: Richard Willmer https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-73572 Sun, 08 May 2011 03:09:51 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-73572 Indeed, Wendy, the comparison is defective for two reasons:-
1. Uganda is contemplating new discriminatory laws; Saudi Arabia is not.
2. Uganda receives aid from the US and EU; Saudi Arabia does not.
Also: the Bahati Bill, as drafted, has some uniquely savage and totalitarian features (let us not forget that combining the Clause about informing with the notion of a ‘serial offender’ could, at least in theory, lead to death by hanging for repeat ‘non-informers’).
But I’m still interested to hear ‘Maazi’s’ explanation regarding his apparently conflicting statements.

]]> By: Wendy Leigh https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-73571 Sun, 08 May 2011 00:27:26 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-73571 There is no comparison between Saudi Arabia and Uganda except perhaps, Idi Amin and, he’s dead. I think similar could be arranged for those who seek to replicate his rule.

]]> By: Richard Willmer https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-49707 Sat, 07 May 2011 20:41:39 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-49707 But, ‘Maazi’, I have to admit that find your comments puzzling and indeed contradictory. If something is deemed to be a crime, then it should make no difference whether it is done ‘in secret’ or not. You can’t have it both ways (and indeed Bahati is very clear about his position: he wants to ‘sniff out’ gays – although it unlikely that the UG police will be up to the task that B. wants them to perform, given tight public finances and an exploding population … though maybe B. thought of that, and is trying to ‘recruit’ informers from the general public by threatening people with jail if they don’t inform).
Nevertheless, the probable deficiencies of the UG police notwithstanding, the mere enacting of the Bill (or anything resembling it) will be seen as an ‘act of war’ by many. Maybe the revised Bill you want should indeed embrace your stated idea that ‘consenting adults in private’ should be ‘left alone’. Then there’s perhaps a greater chance that more real criminals will be dealt with for the good of UG society generally.

]]> By: Richard Willmer https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/05/06/david-bahati-hearings-took-place-today-on-ugandas-anti-homosexuality-bill/#comment-73577 Sat, 07 May 2011 16:41:39 +0000 http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9196#comment-73577 But, ‘Maazi’, I have to admit that find your comments puzzling and indeed contradictory. If something is deemed to be a crime, then it should make no difference whether it is done ‘in secret’ or not. You can’t have it both ways (and indeed Bahati is very clear about his position: he wants to ‘sniff out’ gays – although it unlikely that the UG police will be up to the task that B. wants them to perform, given tight public finances and an exploding population … though maybe B. thought of that, and is trying to ‘recruit’ informers from the general public by threatening people with jail if they don’t inform).
Nevertheless, the probable deficiencies of the UG police notwithstanding, the mere enacting of the Bill (or anything resembling it) will be seen as an ‘act of war’ by many. Maybe the revised Bill you want should indeed embrace your stated idea that ‘consenting adults in private’ should be ‘left alone’. Then there’s perhaps a greater chance that more real criminals will be dealt with for the good of UG society generally.

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