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	<title>
	Comments on: David Barton on Thomas Jefferson &#8211; Did Jefferson approve church in the Capitol?	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-93212</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-93212</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-84247&quot;&gt;Jon&lt;/a&gt;.

Jon - Yes, those are the facts which I don&#039;t dispute. You should be directing your &quot;peace&quot;ful comments to Mr. Barton who makes mountains out of molehills.
You appear to have some history training, so it is surprising that you would consider a fact irrelevant. Barton claims Jefferson started the church and invited the Marine band. There is no evidence for either claim. Real historians care about matters like that.
As an aside and as a psychologist, I have to laugh at a kind reaction formation that allows people to call you names and then sign off with noble sounding words like &quot;peace.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-84247">Jon</a>.</p>
<p>Jon &#8211; Yes, those are the facts which I don&#8217;t dispute. You should be directing your &#8220;peace&#8221;ful comments to Mr. Barton who makes mountains out of molehills.<br />
You appear to have some history training, so it is surprising that you would consider a fact irrelevant. Barton claims Jefferson started the church and invited the Marine band. There is no evidence for either claim. Real historians care about matters like that.<br />
As an aside and as a psychologist, I have to laugh at a kind reaction formation that allows people to call you names and then sign off with noble sounding words like &#8220;peace.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: JOHNL MURPHY		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-91235</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JOHNL MURPHY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-91235</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Was the Capital used for Religious services Y/N. Did a band play Y/N
did people attend Y/N Then it was used as a church/correct
by someone in charge. Why don&#039;t the left did up the floor maybe there are some envelopes left and we can prove by DNA who preached]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was the Capital used for Religious services Y/N. Did a band play Y/N<br />
did people attend Y/N Then it was used as a church/correct<br />
by someone in charge. Why don&#8217;t the left did up the floor maybe there are some envelopes left and we can prove by DNA who preached</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Valin		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-91234</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Valin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-91234</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jefferson wasn&#039;t the President pro tempore of the Senate (a job that goes to an actual senator); as vice-president, he was president of the Senate in 1800. Although technically that left him in charge, he wasn&#039;t allowed to debate or vote on anything except to break a tie. I hardly think that put him in a position to &quot;approve&quot; the use of the Capitol as a church.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jefferson wasn&#8217;t the President pro tempore of the Senate (a job that goes to an actual senator); as vice-president, he was president of the Senate in 1800. Although technically that left him in charge, he wasn&#8217;t allowed to debate or vote on anything except to break a tie. I hardly think that put him in a position to &#8220;approve&#8221; the use of the Capitol as a church.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-89389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-89389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-84243&quot;&gt;Omar&lt;/a&gt;.

Omar - What is the proof that he did approve and brought the Marine Band in? Actually, we do have evidence that you bought the pens. You just wrote it down. Jefferson did not do that. Nor did anybody else. We know that the band was there but that is what we know. We do know that the chaplains were in charge of the services so I suppose there is some circumstantial evidence that they asked the band to play. But we don&#039;t know. What I do know is that it is misleading to tell an audience that Jefferson did something we don&#039;t know that he did.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-84243">Omar</a>.</p>
<p>Omar &#8211; What is the proof that he did approve and brought the Marine Band in? Actually, we do have evidence that you bought the pens. You just wrote it down. Jefferson did not do that. Nor did anybody else. We know that the band was there but that is what we know. We do know that the chaplains were in charge of the services so I suppose there is some circumstantial evidence that they asked the band to play. But we don&#8217;t know. What I do know is that it is misleading to tell an audience that Jefferson did something we don&#8217;t know that he did.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jayhuck		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-88572</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jayhuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-88572</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oft,
&lt;blockquote&gt;If Jefferson is personally in charge of the building&#8211;which he was&#8211;by allowing the band and the services, is he not approving them? It appears to be a principle of logic. By allowing tax money to pay for the services and the band, he is approving it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That is an incredibly weak argument. Tax money goes to fund all sorts of things that people don&#039;t often personally endorse.  If the founding Fathers had wanted to specify Christianity as the official religion of the land, they easily could have, but they did not.  Your best argument is that something along these lines was implied, but why imply when they could have made it perfectly clear if they had wanted to.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oft,</p>
<blockquote><p>If Jefferson is personally in charge of the building&#8211;which he was&#8211;by allowing the band and the services, is he not approving them? It appears to be a principle of logic. By allowing tax money to pay for the services and the band, he is approving it.</p></blockquote>
<p>That is an incredibly weak argument. Tax money goes to fund all sorts of things that people don&#8217;t often personally endorse.  If the founding Fathers had wanted to specify Christianity as the official religion of the land, they easily could have, but they did not.  Your best argument is that something along these lines was implied, but why imply when they could have made it perfectly clear if they had wanted to.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-88574</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-88574</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jayhuck,
You aren&#039;t paying attention.  The fact that Jefferson did not rip the tuba out of the hand of the marching band member and hit him over the head with it unequivocally proves that Jefferson was a Southern Baptist minister.  That wall of separation was just to keep out the Jews and the Catholics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jayhuck,<br />
You aren&#8217;t paying attention.  The fact that Jefferson did not rip the tuba out of the hand of the marching band member and hit him over the head with it unequivocally proves that Jefferson was a Southern Baptist minister.  That wall of separation was just to keep out the Jews and the Catholics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-88563</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-88563</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The Senate chaplain was Dr. Thomas John Claggett, an Episcopalian, and the House chaplain was Rev. Thomas Lyell, a Methodist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is an amusing and fascinating observation about social status.  Based on what I&#039;ve read, denominational affiliation had as much to do with social standing and cultural strata as it did with theology.  A city&#039;s social and political leaders - the upper class, if you will - attended Episcopal services, while the Methodist church was &#039;church for the people&#039;.  It&#039;s amusing that this is reflected in the chaplaincy of the two bodies, the upper and lower houses of Congress.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Senate chaplain was Dr. Thomas John Claggett, an Episcopalian, and the House chaplain was Rev. Thomas Lyell, a Methodist.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is an amusing and fascinating observation about social status.  Based on what I&#8217;ve read, denominational affiliation had as much to do with social standing and cultural strata as it did with theology.  A city&#8217;s social and political leaders &#8211; the upper class, if you will &#8211; attended Episcopal services, while the Methodist church was &#8216;church for the people&#8217;.  It&#8217;s amusing that this is reflected in the chaplaincy of the two bodies, the upper and lower houses of Congress.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-88575</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-88575</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[oft - Initially Jefferson had nothing to do with it. The President protempore votes when there are ties. The Senate never voted on church in the House chamber.
What makes you think Jefferson was in charge of the building? Separation of powers man.
As noted here and by Chris Rodda, the services were more like religious socials with every type of religious view offered. If there had been a mosque in DC, I suspect Jefferson would have had the Imam in.
As I noted, this story cuts in favor of relgion generally. THere is no need to embellish it as Barton does.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oft &#8211; Initially Jefferson had nothing to do with it. The President protempore votes when there are ties. The Senate never voted on church in the House chamber.<br />
What makes you think Jefferson was in charge of the building? Separation of powers man.<br />
As noted here and by Chris Rodda, the services were more like religious socials with every type of religious view offered. If there had been a mosque in DC, I suspect Jefferson would have had the Imam in.<br />
As I noted, this story cuts in favor of relgion generally. THere is no need to embellish it as Barton does.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Curtis R. Schofield		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-88576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curtis R. Schofield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-88576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When Thomas Jefferson wrote &quot;I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man&quot; was he worshiping in the church in the capital building or the church in Willamsburg?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Thomas Jefferson wrote &#8220;I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man&#8221; was he worshiping in the church in the capital building or the church in Willamsburg?</p>
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		<title>
		By: oft		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/04/27/david-barton-on-thomas-jefferson-did-jefferson-approve-church-in-the-capitol/#comment-88577</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oft]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=9067#comment-88577</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Warren,
The point I made was TJ was the chief executive. Maybe you can find out, I am not sure, but I believe TJ was in charge events in the Capitol building. If that is the case, he endorsed tax money to be used for church. I&#039;m not saying they weren&#039;t social events. But, making an official proclamation is irrelevant. HIs actions are what matters.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren,<br />
The point I made was TJ was the chief executive. Maybe you can find out, I am not sure, but I believe TJ was in charge events in the Capitol building. If that is the case, he endorsed tax money to be used for church. I&#8217;m not saying they weren&#8217;t social events. But, making an official proclamation is irrelevant. HIs actions are what matters.</p>
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