Comments on: David Barton on Thomas Jefferson – United Brethren and the Christian Indians

By: hazemyth

hazemyth — Wed, 30 May 2018 22:34:32 +0000

Impressive work. Very informative. Thanks!

By: oft

oft — Wed, 30 May 2018 22:34:32 +0000

However, I maintain that it is simply misleading to say that Jefferson approved funds to evangelize the tribe when the tribe was already predominantly Catholic.>>>>
That most of these Indians were catholics is irrelevant. Jefferson gave money to a govt to support the established religion. That is heresy to modern day secularists.

By: Timothy Kincaid

Timothy Kincaid — Wed, 30 May 2018 22:34:32 +0000

Rather than see this as money given for evangelism, it might be a bit more accurate to see this as money owed to Indians and given to their White missionaries. Because, of course, Indians needed someone White to make decisions for them.
(And no, my mother’s family were not Delaware; they were Cherokee)

By: Debbie Thurman

Debbie Thurman — Wed, 30 May 2018 22:34:32 +0000

I very much enjoy history when it is portrayed as accurately as possible from extant documents. Thank you for your hard work here, Warren.
Why must some insist on casting us as a Christian nation? Yes, we have strong Judeo-Christian underpinnings. But we are also noted for our championing of freedoms, including freedom of conscience and of religion. The most Christian thing we have done, perhaps, is to allow immigrants to assimilate into our culture, but believe as they choose to so long as they abide by our laws.

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:39:43 +0000

In reply to Ron Lester. Ron - Please point out the lies. On another comment you said I was not Christian for saying David Barton lied (actually I just said he was wrong). Now you are calling me (us?) liars. Bad form Ron. What are the lies?

By: oft

oft — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:50:51 +0000

Well if the State Religion is Atheism, then surely it would subvert public order to be promoting beliefs and teachings contrary to that religion.

Not beliefs. They are protected by the free exercise clause. The people can throw away religion if they please.

Obviously, obeisance to the Vatican is against public order.

Only against those people who embraced doctrines “subversive of a free government established by the people.” such as absolute allegiance to the Pope, instead of the Constitution. Thjat was why catholics could not hold office.

By: Emily K

Emily K — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:50:51 +0000

No way, the Founders were AWESOME!
Ben Franklin said: “Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.” He screwed more chicks than I probably will in my lifetime. He was funny and clever, too. We like him a lot here in Philly in fact. 😀
Jefferson was so disillusioned by Christianity – and he didn’t even need to deal with the 20th century revivals – that he edited his own Bible. He declared to be a man of faith while boldly denying the godman vicarious sacrifice dogma and virgin birth dogma. He also said “Question with boldness even the existence of a god.”
John Adams said “God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.”
Madison said: “religion & government will exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
The founders were AWESOME.

By: Timothy Kincaid

Timothy Kincaid — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:50:51 +0000

Only against those people who embraced doctrines “subversive of a free government established by the people.” such as absolute allegiance to the Pope, instead of the Constitution.

Oh, my. Well that certainly put this into perspective:

Because we honor justice and the common good, we will not comply with any edict that purports to compel our institutions to participate in abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide and euthanasia, or any other anti-life act; nor will we bend to any rule purporting to force us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat them as marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we know it, about morality and immorality and marriage and the family. We will fully and ungrudgingly render to Caesar what is Caesar’s. But under no circumstances will we render to Caesar what is God’s.

By: Ron Lester

Ron Lester — Wed, 30 May 2018 19:50:51 +0000

Many splitting of hairs here, many lies here as well, and no proof that America’s founding was anything less than Christian. And that Jefferson was friend to many pastors, churches, ministries, and in no way insisted on a strict boundary between church and state. Barton’s accuracy is the same as Rush Limbaugh’s: 98.9 percent.

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 30 May 2018 18:28:53 +0000

In reply to oft.

oft – Which view of God did the Founders intend to cover with the First Amendment – the trinitarian view or the unitarian view? And which one do you believe is the proper Christian position?