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	Comments on: National Abortion Federation quietly removes reference to Gosnell&#8217;s Delaware clinic	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/01/29/national-abortion-federation-quietly-removes-reference-to-gosnells-delaware-clinic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/01/29/national-abortion-federation-quietly-removes-reference-to-gosnells-delaware-clinic/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:32:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/01/29/national-abortion-federation-quietly-removes-reference-to-gosnells-delaware-clinic/#comment-92950</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=8501#comment-92950</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;it&#039;s too bad that bigotry against gay people and prejudice about single people will take precedent over adoption advocacy in the minds of so many anti-abortion activists.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Emily,



Are you advocating adoption over abortion?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>it&#8217;s too bad that bigotry against gay people and prejudice about single people will take precedent over adoption advocacy in the minds of so many anti-abortion activists.</p></blockquote>
<p>Emily,</p>
<p>Are you advocating adoption over abortion?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Debbie Thurman		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/01/29/national-abortion-federation-quietly-removes-reference-to-gosnells-delaware-clinic/#comment-90643</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debbie Thurman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=8501#comment-90643</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Only God could know if they would be constructive or destructive, yes? &lt;/blockquote&gt;



Yes, only He could know in advance. Are we unable to trust His sovereign will in ordering every life, whether it may bring suffering into the world or prevent it? All have value to Him. Psalm 139. They are &quot;potential&quot; only in what they may accomplish if they are allowed to live. They are &quot;lives&quot; every step of the way in the womb, of course.



There is a grave danger in trying to predetermine God&#039;s will or select for Him who is worthy to live and who is not. If He takes care of every sparrow, is He not able to take care of every human being? Eliminating so many of the unborn has not eliminated suffering or crime or poverty, has it? It has enhanced another category of crime. Just one of those never born may have been a visionary who could have grown up to make an inestimable contribution to the world, perhaps to lessen suffering in some way. Another may have ushered in a much-needed moral awakening.



We have failed to heed the lessons of old. Look what happened because Sarah and Abraham did not wait on God and believe His promise of an heir. Ishmael and his progeny came into the world, followed later by Isaac, through whom God&#039;s covenant was to be fulfilled. But God had to deal with Ishmael, too. He also was permitted to beget a great nation. And the two remain at war with each other to this day.



Most of us would prefer to see a capable single person raising a child rather than see that child bounce among foster homes. I am sure there are more than a few loving gay couples longing to raise some of these children, as well. That is still a problematic proposition in the minds of many. No easy solutions. The ship has been on its course for too long to turn it around without a great deal of effort. And each side is entrenched, as you say, Emily.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Only God could know if they would be constructive or destructive, yes? </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, only He could know in advance. Are we unable to trust His sovereign will in ordering every life, whether it may bring suffering into the world or prevent it? All have value to Him. Psalm 139. They are &#8220;potential&#8221; only in what they may accomplish if they are allowed to live. They are &#8220;lives&#8221; every step of the way in the womb, of course.</p>
<p>There is a grave danger in trying to predetermine God&#8217;s will or select for Him who is worthy to live and who is not. If He takes care of every sparrow, is He not able to take care of every human being? Eliminating so many of the unborn has not eliminated suffering or crime or poverty, has it? It has enhanced another category of crime. Just one of those never born may have been a visionary who could have grown up to make an inestimable contribution to the world, perhaps to lessen suffering in some way. Another may have ushered in a much-needed moral awakening.</p>
<p>We have failed to heed the lessons of old. Look what happened because Sarah and Abraham did not wait on God and believe His promise of an heir. Ishmael and his progeny came into the world, followed later by Isaac, through whom God&#8217;s covenant was to be fulfilled. But God had to deal with Ishmael, too. He also was permitted to beget a great nation. And the two remain at war with each other to this day.</p>
<p>Most of us would prefer to see a capable single person raising a child rather than see that child bounce among foster homes. I am sure there are more than a few loving gay couples longing to raise some of these children, as well. That is still a problematic proposition in the minds of many. No easy solutions. The ship has been on its course for too long to turn it around without a great deal of effort. And each side is entrenched, as you say, Emily.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Emily K		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/01/29/national-abortion-federation-quietly-removes-reference-to-gosnells-delaware-clinic/#comment-90637</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emily K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=8501#comment-90637</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[While certain factions of Jews and Muslims are currently &quot;at war,&quot; for a while this was not the case. And the fact that Ishmael was made a &quot;great nation&quot; shows that God did indeed have a plan for Ishmael, yes? For a long time, that &quot;plan&quot; was saving the &quot;covenant people&quot; from Christians in Europe who sought to eradicate them through conversion or death, as they had blood on their hands (Matthew 27:25). The greatest Jewish Golden Age of the middle ages took place in Muslim Spain. After the Christians took over, Jews were expelled and Inquisition initiated.



The kibbutz I visited in Israel was run by Holocaust survivors and their descendants and Israeli Arabs. And when Israel was first established, there was hardly a monolithic bastion of Muslims opposing it. Tel Aviv was established decades before the State of Israel existed. So I quite disagree that &quot;Ishmael&quot; and &quot;Israel&quot; are made to be enemies. Rather, we are more like cousins.



&lt;blockquote&gt;Most of us would prefer to see a capable single person raising a child rather than see that child bounce among foster homes. I am sure there are more than a few loving gay couples longing to raise some of these children, as well. That is still a problematic proposition in the minds of many. &lt;/blockquote&gt;



Ah. well, it&#039;s too bad that bigotry against gay people and prejudice about single people will take precedent over adoption advocacy in the minds of so many anti-abortion activists.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While certain factions of Jews and Muslims are currently &#8220;at war,&#8221; for a while this was not the case. And the fact that Ishmael was made a &#8220;great nation&#8221; shows that God did indeed have a plan for Ishmael, yes? For a long time, that &#8220;plan&#8221; was saving the &#8220;covenant people&#8221; from Christians in Europe who sought to eradicate them through conversion or death, as they had blood on their hands (Matthew 27:25). The greatest Jewish Golden Age of the middle ages took place in Muslim Spain. After the Christians took over, Jews were expelled and Inquisition initiated.</p>
<p>The kibbutz I visited in Israel was run by Holocaust survivors and their descendants and Israeli Arabs. And when Israel was first established, there was hardly a monolithic bastion of Muslims opposing it. Tel Aviv was established decades before the State of Israel existed. So I quite disagree that &#8220;Ishmael&#8221; and &#8220;Israel&#8221; are made to be enemies. Rather, we are more like cousins.</p>
<blockquote><p>Most of us would prefer to see a capable single person raising a child rather than see that child bounce among foster homes. I am sure there are more than a few loving gay couples longing to raise some of these children, as well. That is still a problematic proposition in the minds of many. </p></blockquote>
<p>Ah. well, it&#8217;s too bad that bigotry against gay people and prejudice about single people will take precedent over adoption advocacy in the minds of so many anti-abortion activists.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Debbie Thurman		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/01/29/national-abortion-federation-quietly-removes-reference-to-gosnells-delaware-clinic/#comment-90644</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debbie Thurman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=8501#comment-90644</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t speak to all of God&#039;s plans, including any He may have had for Ishmael and his seed. The Bible only tells us He heard Abraham&#039;s plea and cared for Ishmael. The descendants of Isaac and Ishmael are kindred nations, not nations created or designed to be enemies. The jealously and enmity were of their own making and will most certainly play a role in prophecy yet to be fulfilled. And though Christians mucked things up pretty badly themselves over the centuries, Christ&#039;s desire was for all nations to come to him. Not to a creed.



But this is straying off-topic. More to the topic is your last point. It is bigotry against gay people that drives some people to reject them as adoptive parents. But that&#039;s not the reason everyone objects, or at least counsel caution in order to examine the bigger picture.



The best thing is for mothers and fathers to marry and raise the children they conceive. Our culture is not fostering that, however. We&#039;ve wrongly accepted as a given that it can&#039;t happen, so we look for other options, the easiest of which is to simply eradicate the children in the womb. &quot;Take care of the unwanted child problem.&quot; Sounds like what a certain country discussed frequently here wants to do with its gay problem in some ways, no?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t speak to all of God&#8217;s plans, including any He may have had for Ishmael and his seed. The Bible only tells us He heard Abraham&#8217;s plea and cared for Ishmael. The descendants of Isaac and Ishmael are kindred nations, not nations created or designed to be enemies. The jealously and enmity were of their own making and will most certainly play a role in prophecy yet to be fulfilled. And though Christians mucked things up pretty badly themselves over the centuries, Christ&#8217;s desire was for all nations to come to him. Not to a creed.</p>
<p>But this is straying off-topic. More to the topic is your last point. It is bigotry against gay people that drives some people to reject them as adoptive parents. But that&#8217;s not the reason everyone objects, or at least counsel caution in order to examine the bigger picture.</p>
<p>The best thing is for mothers and fathers to marry and raise the children they conceive. Our culture is not fostering that, however. We&#8217;ve wrongly accepted as a given that it can&#8217;t happen, so we look for other options, the easiest of which is to simply eradicate the children in the womb. &#8220;Take care of the unwanted child problem.&#8221; Sounds like what a certain country discussed frequently here wants to do with its gay problem in some ways, no?</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Debbie Thurman		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2011/01/29/national-abortion-federation-quietly-removes-reference-to-gosnells-delaware-clinic/#comment-89743</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debbie Thurman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wthrockmorton.com/?p=8501#comment-89743</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The real topic, Emily, is Warren&#039;s original post, which is anything but tame and ought to have a devastating impact on the abortion industry. As to the other &quot;this,&quot; you would think by now most PPFA counselors have been read into the possibility of an undercover person walking through their doors. But if this exposes a trend that is not just an isolated problem, it is a very big deal.



Isn&#039;t it interesting that we could even think of such an irregularity at an abortion clinic as a &quot;dirty little secret&quot; when the real horror of what abortion entails is a secret PPFA and others try to keep from getting out. I am not aware of any so-called right-wing horror that could even touch it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real topic, Emily, is Warren&#8217;s original post, which is anything but tame and ought to have a devastating impact on the abortion industry. As to the other &#8220;this,&#8221; you would think by now most PPFA counselors have been read into the possibility of an undercover person walking through their doors. But if this exposes a trend that is not just an isolated problem, it is a very big deal.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it interesting that we could even think of such an irregularity at an abortion clinic as a &#8220;dirty little secret&#8221; when the real horror of what abortion entails is a secret PPFA and others try to keep from getting out. I am not aware of any so-called right-wing horror that could even touch it.</p>
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