“What responsibility does a patient have to walk away from someone they think is unethical or just not on the same page as they are?”

Some clients are not educated about what constitutes “ethical” or effective therapy” or they may be too depressed or frightened to question what is being said to them. Many a vulnerable client has been taken in by an unethical therapist. Certainly, if the client has the insight to realize he’s not on the same page, he should walk away.

“What responsibility does a patient have to walk away from someone they think is unethical or just not on the same page as they are?”

A lot. Why is that relevant?

The gay bloggers are going to shout the negative…shout about the ones who threaten them and those who quietly and consistently go about doing good, they aren’t talked about.

So, so true. I never (maybe rarely) read about a positive from the gay community where it concerns Christians who disagree with their ideas on the sin of homosexuality. And I have had the good fortune of knowing some fantastic Christians (once I allowed myself to get to know them) who are truly walking the walk.

There are many, many churches with attitudes of tolerance, grace and humility’ rather than dismissing all responsiblity by saying ‘that is not the fault of gay people’

True. I belong to one. I am not saying gays bear no responsibility for the negative perception they have of Christians. We do tend to accentuate the negative at times — partly because that kind of “Christianity” is louder. (I believe David said they have a “bigger megaphone”.) We are often suspicious, angry and resentful based on past experience. And sometimes, gays are just looking for any example that proves the “hateful Christian” stereotype. It’s easy to do.

Sad. I have been guilty of this. But I have hope. I am changing. Things are changing. As time passes, I believe more Christian churches will exemplify tolerance, grace and humility. It’s what they are called by Christ to do. More gay Christians will come out and help to change the situation. More churches will be affirming. More moderate and loving Christians will encourage their brethren to pipe down. As they do, gays may change their tune as well, but it will take them longer to catch on to the new music.

We say, “Your message hurts. You hate and reject us. You fear us. You say we won’t go to heaven. You want to deny us equal rights — basic human rights to employment, housing, health, marriage, etc. You want to criminalize us. You tell us we our love is counterfeit.

You say hateful, bigotted things about us and spread lies about us. You say we pose a danger to your kids. We want to destroy the family and civilization itself. Homosexuality is Evil. Dangerous. You insist that we are damaged goods, deserving of scorn or pity.”

And you respond defensively, “No we don’t. It’s unfair to say that we do”. Gays say Christianity is their enemy. And you say, “No we aren’t. There is no evidence that we are!”

Not listening. Not caring. Not really.

Now lets move on to having compassion for fundamentalist dispensationalists!

Believe it or not, I do. As you said, they are imprisoned by their fear.

Religious and social pressure. About equally weighted. The message that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God or have the blessings and rights of being “normal”. The fear of being rejected by their church, family or culture.

The desire to be loved for who they are and the fear that they have to deny some true aspect of their nature –or live a lie — in order to get these things. Here’s Peterson Toscano, an “ex-gay survivor”, summing it up quite well:

Michael,

I don’t need to watch a video – what you tell me is good enough. I understand. It seems that in today’s society, that these things are not so much an issue as they once were. I see an acceptance and defense of gays now as I have never seen before. Perhaps through natural attrition, it will become a completely acceptable way to be and live – I just don’t know. I still do not want to diminish or discredit the inner awareness or instinct that some might have that, regardless of their desires or feelings, would guide them away from same gender sex.

The gay bloggers are going to shout the negative…shout about the ones who threaten them and those who quietly and consistently go about doing good, they aren’t talked about.

I think this is true to some extent but lets not pretend that Christians haven’t given them a reason to should. Gay people have at the mercy of some incredible vitriol that has spilled from people and groups that call themselves Christian. Many Christians have demonized gay people, skewed research to their liking to further that demonization, and worked incredibly hard to undermine equal rights for gay people and families . I sympathize with why gay people may shout the negative, because, frankly, there’s plenty of negative to shout about when it comes to the Christian community, especially from some of the hate groups like AFA, etc.

That said, I know fully well there are plenty of wonderful Christians out there, and I’m not just talking about the more liberal ones. I happen to be friends with many Orthodox Christians who believe being a practicing gay is a sin, but nevertheless love and respect me. One couple who is closest to me even made me the godfather of their children. They also don’t work to undermine the rights gay people seek. I also know wonderful and loving people from conservative Evangelical groups who are also respectful when it comes to me. Warren is an excellent example of such an evangelical.

This, and not hatred, is the core fuel. That is not to say the outcome is not hateful.

Absolutely – Anyone from any religious group who believes that what they are doing is the will of God but which hurts and harms other human beings is frightening. I know this is a stretch, and I most definitely do not mean to tie these types of Christians to this, but Islamic terrorists would be the extreme example.

I find it interesting that ideas like The Rapture and what some Dispensationalists believe didn’t come around until the 19th century. Ancient Christians did not hold these sorts of beliefs.

I still do not want to diminish or discredit the inner awareness or instinct that some might have that, regardless of their desires or feelings, would guide them away from same gender sex

Neither do I. I respect their decision to do so. I also respect the “inner awareness or instinct” of those who decided to leave the ex-gay/post gay path. We all must live in accordance with our values. Life is unbearable doing anything else.

BTW; I applaud the decision of Canyon Ridge to distance themselves from Ssempa — and told them so personally. Whether they responded to outside pressure or their own inner guidance, it was the right thing to do. My correspondence with them was coridal and respectful — from and to. I have maintained regular contact with them and admire the many good things they seem to be doing to demonstrate grace, tolerance and humiity in their community.