‘….we still have to find a way to understand the male-female differences‘

Does this mean differences in experiencing fluidity in sexual orientation or sex differences in general? You’ve mentioned before the animus reference…

Asher Brown’s worn-out tennis shoes still sit in the living room of his Cypress-area home while his student progress report — filled with straight A’s — rests on the coffee table.

The eighth-grader killed himself last week. He shot himself in the head after enduring what his mother and stepfather say was constant harassment from four other students at Hamilton Middle School in the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District.

Brown, his family said, was “bullied to death” — picked on for his small size, his religion and because he did not wear designer clothes and shoes. Kids also accused him of being gay, some of them performing mock gay acts on him in his physical education class, his mother and stepfather said.

The 13-year-old’s parents said they had complained about the bullying to Hamilton Middle School officials during the past 18 months, but claimed their concerns fell on deaf ears.

David and Amy Truong said they made several visits to the school to complain about the harassment, and Amy Truong said she made numerous phone calls to the school that were never returned.

On the morning of his death, the teen told his stepfather he was gay, but Truong said he was fine with the disclosure. “We didn’t condemn,” he said.

Yeah, I know. Just another dead gay kid. Big deal.

However, early in the booklet it advertises “Bagley holds meetings where youth, 22 and under, can meet.” If what ken and Timothy maintain is correct, why didn’t they just say ’21 and 22′? (But, ah, you say…that’s just an advertisement and it really doesn’t say that the booklet is directed to youth.)

The book is full of references to youth…but as before, it could be argued that they meant ‘youth over 21’.

But then, within the next two pages, ‘if the bar isn’t your thing or if you aren’t old enough’ and then a reference to ‘if you are old enough’.

Conclusion: The book clearly was intended for ‘queer boys’ both over and under the age of 21.

The booklets own language of “if you aren’t old enough” and “if you are old enough” makes these words of Timothy’s bogus:

Massachusetts drinking age in 2005 was 21. It is reasonable to assume that any booklet in which the bars were listed was intended for queerboys over the age of 21

.

And these, well, they’re just Timothy:

It crossed the line from opinion to bigotry. I don’t use that word often, but it applies in this instance. Making a horrific accusation just out of animus (which is why you made it, Debbie) is vile, truly vile, and I’m not going to let you baselessly slur my community.

Given the references I cited from the book, I have a different conclusion as to who has crossed the line from opinion to bigotry…who has made a horrific accusation just out of animus. (probably the most vile, truly vile thing you could call a person on this website is ‘bigot’) and who is guilty of a baseless slur?

My view is that it is cartoonish, takes too light a tone and goes too far to be non-offensive, especially on the drug abuse portion. I do not believe it is a good approach to public health issues. I would not like straight young adults to get a comparable product aimed at them. In public health there are debates about tone and approach and this book is at one end of a spectrum of views about how to influence behavior.

All that being said, this thread is not about the LBB. Rather than debate the merits or demerits of the LBB, let’s get to the heart of it. Evangelicals are afraid that talking about the existence of gays or sexual orientation might lead to LBBs being distributed. Can we all agree that nothing like that is required by a discussion of the reality of anti-gay bullying in school?

Every person here g or s or in between would oppose something like that as a means of dealing with bullying, right?

I don’t necessarily agree with you that Debbie is lying Timothy. What she said about the pamphlet. isn’t true. However, I don’t think this is a case of her lying about it, more she is seeing what she wants to see.

Perhaps so, ken, but the statement is a lie whether she came up with it or is just repeating it. And it is so outrageous that any person would hesitate to repeat such a thing unless they were either incredibly gullible or inclined to believe the very worst about gay people.

Vicious animus is not just the motivation behind creating heinous lies, it is also the motivation behind believing such lies.

Timothy, you are free to make charges against any group that I belong to, if they are deserved. I will not shrivel up and die if you do. I know that there are some folks who call themselves Christians who are hypocrites of the first order. You know there are some sleazy, bar-hopping, sex-pushing gay and straight folks (though I know of no instance where a straight sex guide was given to school-aged kids at any kind of official function, accident or no). And we all know there are vulnerable, confused young people who can be harmed by well-meaning, but nonetheless wrong-headed zealots on either side.

I have no “animus” toward you or your people. I do have problems with hypocrites, regardless of ideology. By the way, did you know that in Jungian psychology, animus supposedly is the masculine aspects of a woman’s personality? You may or may not have used the word for that reason. No matter.

Clearly you have either a desire to believe the lie that Debbie was propagating or else you are just being argumentative as usual.

If you have no evidence that this booklet “was written for adolescents” then present it. Otherwise you are participating in an evil slur.

I as so very sick of those who think it is just “an opinion” to viciously slur my community or who think they are just “raising points” or participating in conversation. It’s disgusting.

Proof? None. Evidence? none.

But just like the ulterior motives of anti-bullying programs, there’s no need for a smidgen of evidence when it comes to the gay community. They can just throw out accusations and because it’s the evil gays then they are justified in their mind of the most base animus and vileness.

Eddy, you would NEVER repeat accusations towards any other community of secret hidden agenda to anti-bullying or EVER consider defending a slur like this one against any other community.

You wouldn’t. In fact, you would find anyone who did so to be unChristian and of despicable character. And you’d be right.

Do you really think it is okay here? Just because it’s gay people being accused that make it okay and defendable?

Actually? Gosh. You make it sound like a miracle or something. I believe I often have constructive things to say — I least I think my comments often have merit, even if others here may not. :

Michael, I only meant that your comment stood out from the rest, not that you miraculously said something worthy. 🙂

BTW — I think we need to be careful not to assume that all LGBT people (or even the majority of people who oppose bullying and who favor mentioning sexual orientation among the most common targets) are huge fans of GLSEN just as not all Conservative Christians are members of the FOTF fan club.

Good point.

As regards the whole “ex-” controversy, a person cannot put on or take off ethnicity. But there is observable fluidity in sexual preferences or identification. And we still have to find a way to understand the male-female differences. Most of the time, the term gay and the statistics discussed refer to men only. I am of the belief that God can transform anyone from anything. But my personal experience is limited to that of a woman. I cannot believe God treats the sexes differently in that regard.

“Massachusetts drinking age in 2005 was 21. It is reasonable to assume that any booklet in which the bars were listed was intended for queerboys over the age of 21.”

Actually, it was generally intended for college age men. Not necessarily over 21, but certainly not aimed at adolescents. Anyone who reads it, who isn’t looking for anti-gay dirt, should see that.