Even if they do totally remove the possibility of death or life imprisonment, the fact that they even considered it is very disturbing to say the least.

Eddy,

The death penalty and some other provisions in the Bahati was always controversial from the start. There were several Ugandans who spoke against it, even before busy-body Western gay activists knew that there was such an African country called “Uganda”. It was more than likely that the death penalty would have been dropped regardless of the self-righteous cries of the foreigners. It is not uncommon in Uganda for original bills to come to parliament with very harsh or undesirable provisions and then get watered down as it passes through the legislative process. The Bahati Bill is no exception.

Between the 11th May & 25th May I got a chance to meet CRCC pastor who had visited Uganda. Our talk was very helpfull, actually this is when I got to know CRCC encourage their members to acquire copies of the bill and read. They were also encoraged to get constant updates about it from their partners in Uganda. Dr. Warren seems to dispute this truth and wants the whole world to believe his voice. I am sorry atleast I will not.

Dr. Warren here is the problem; u want us to always believe your posts as absolute truth. You never accept any correction. Nowonder your interview with ONN on 19th March was a big shame. You kept being doubled minded earning the nickname “Mischief”. Rem you once supported both the Ex-Gay and Homo associations; you did did this secretelt till you were discovered and later on fired from the ex-gay Assoc. You embarras society with your continued “games”. On the 14th Feb 2005 the Magellan Health Services, Inc. fired you because your views on homosexuality were “potentially controversial” not in “the best interests” of the company. And you have continued with the same character. groove City College is a faithbased Institution that embraces Biblical teachings. You know the Bible’s position on Homosexuality. You are a wolf in a sheep’s skin. I may not say shame upon you but you know where you lie.

If Uganda was technologically advanced, you would see the stand our people have taken concerning homosexuality. By the way why hasn’t homosexuality been legalised in the entire USA?

Believing something doesn’t make it so. If you really deal with the evidence on sexual orientation, it is messy but there is plenty of credible evidence for biological factors in samesex attraction. Prenatal hormones, brain studies, x-chromosome skewing in moms, animal models, etc., there is evidence for sure. None of that evidence says what anyone ought to do, but to keep saying there is none is to demonstrate how little you know about it.

I do not doubt in the slightest that the penalties in the AHB are designed to prohibit homosexuality. As I said just yesterday:

Yes, Warren, they are definitely out to prohibit homosexuality. Where you go too far is when you continue to assume that the penalty is going to be life imprisonment for consensual adult behavior simply because they won’t answer you with specific penalities.

What I question is the presumption that they are still considering death or life imprisonment for consensual adults. I believe they do plan to ‘prohibit’ consensual adult homosexual activity but that they are purposely not telling us what that penalty might be. As I said just yesterday:

So, providing you any specifics regarding what penalities they are considering will only lead to more debate and public opinion pressure from the outside. So they’ve spoken to those most serious offenses and have removed the death penalty and life imprisonment BUT they realize that ‘the rights of two consensual adults’ is a sacred cow in our culture AND THEREFORE they are keeping quiet (at least with you) about what penalties they are actually considering.

It might even be something much like our own sodomy laws that, while they remained on the books, were not enforced. The logic behind this would be that they have not legitimized homosexuality and therefore further distance themselves from ‘the intrusion of gayism’…in the schools, in the push for gay marriage, etc.

Given that I wrote those comments only 24 hours ago, I am disheartened that you should attempt to spin with:

However, Eddy is the one who seems to doubt that the penalties in the AHB are aimed at prohibiting homosexuality.

Maazi NCO is correct in his assessment that I do not completely agree with their views. I believe I understand their concerns regarding ‘the intrusion of gayism’ and also of Western values and the Western manner of approach but I’m certainly not thrilled with the approach they’ve taken. Even if they do totally remove the possibility of death or life imprisonment, the fact that they even considered it is very disturbing to say the least. I do not believe in a ‘sin meter mentality’ where one sin somehow outranks another. Whenever we attempt to legislate morallity, we walk a fine line.

I further believe that one of the major problems with the bill is that it is responsive. What I mean by that is that it seems directly related to a perceived agenda of ‘the intrusion of gayism’. In being responsive to that perceived threat, it fell out of context with laws and prohibitions pertaining to sexuality that already exist. I believe strongly that they need to address that slanted focus as they pursue their objectives.

Beyond that, I note that Ugandans speak more bluntly than we do. We are obsessed with political correctness and feel compelled to qualify our words and statements; they don’t. Bluntly they declare ‘Our objective is to prohibit homosexualism in every manner of expression’. We see and hear no qualifiers and thus assume the worst.

And beyond THAT, they are angry at our intrusion and our demands for explanations. They are angry that we feel that we have the right to step in and tell them what to do. They are angry that we have censured CRCC. This anger is increasing the level of blunt speech; it is motivating them to being even more unresponsive than they previously were.

Discussion that ignores these dynamics and the many miscommunications and misinterpretations that they foster will overlook a number of dots as we play ‘connect the dots’. The picture we end up with will be a distortion.

I want to say even more forcefully that I do believe that it is possible that I am wrong…that the picture that you and LynnDavid see is correct. This is my first real exposure to Ugandan culture and thinking. I have learned a number of suprising (and often startling) things about their culture; I would be a fool to presume that I KNOW their heart, mind and approach. BUT I DO see this other possibility. That’s all. I realize that it’s taken a lot of words to explain what I see as a possibility but I’m not trying to argue that I am correct; I’m simply trying to argue that it is a viable possibility…one that I think would be beneficial to add to our ‘processing filters’ as we attempt to sort out inconsistencies.

More and more, I get the feeling that Ssempa and his supporters don’t really give a damn what consenting gay adults do in private — even though they say they do. They just want gays to be hidden, secretive and to live in fear.

They don’t want gays to be able to live openly or with dignity. Much like many homophobes and religious conservative here in the USA wish that gays would return to the closet, “sin” in private and shut the hell up — just like it was in the “good old days” before Stonewall and the elimination of sodomy laws.

Intelligent people know that you cannot prevent homosexual orientation by making it illegal or “cure it” by forcing people into “treatment” that has no scientific basis. If the real intent is to punish child abusers, there would be no need to mention the sexual orientation of the offender.

If you really want to stop “gayism”, why not just limit freedom of speech and freedom of assembly? Close down any gay bars, make gay rights organizations illegal and arrest people who show public displays of gay affection? That would do the trick and would be much more honest.

What I should have asked was, “If that is the case, why not just correct the flaws in the current laws to address boys and girls equally — regardless of the gender or the victim or perpetrator?”

The ‘monitoring’ that you perceive is a direct result of the extremism of the bill in it’s original. It was the death penalty and life imprisonment that captured the focus and the outrage of so many. I suspect that if the death penalty or life imprisonment had not been mentioned, no one would be paying much attention. BUT since those extremes were in the original consideration, the attention of outsiders has been garnered. And, now that Uganda has their attention, folks are monitoring. And since no one from Uganda is speaking specifically to what the ‘prohibition’ will mean in terms of penalty for consensual adults, the focus still runs high and will continue to run high as long as that question remains unanswered.