I can’t really add anything factual to the “falling ex-gays” conversation, but I think we need to consider one perspective that is unique to ex-gays.

We often hear that the same rules apply to SSA people and unmarried OSA people: chastity, and celibacy. But that isn’t exactly the case.

When an OSA guy sees an attractive girl and registers his attraction is isn’t considered a failing or a sin. I’m not talking harboring lust, just noticing and responding to attraction. Just thinking to yourself, “wow, she’s really hot!”

Yet if an ex-gay does this, it is a fall, a slip, and perhaps even a sin. It is generally considered to be entertaining or yielding to homosexuality.

I suspect this plays a part in the psychology of ex-gays and sexual purity. In other words, if noticing a hot guy is no less sinful than going home with him…

Another thing which may come into play is that often ex-gay ministries emphasize the most hedonistic acts as being “the gay lifestyle”. Being gay is to a strong degree tied to sex acts and there is a de-emphasis on relationships or faith or community or support as being “what homosexuals do.”

And I think this may even put more pressure to have sex than a gay person might have. When urges arise, a gay guy may want to go be around gay folk, sit in front of the Starbucks on Santa Monica and watch people go by. Maybe even chat up someone near you. Most gay socialization has nothing to do with “getting laid.”

But for some ex-gays there is no understanding that this is an adequate response, that this will actually fill the longing. So the presumption is that the way to satisfy such urges is not to go down to the gay coffee shop and have a meaningful conversation but rather to get on the internet and find someone to have anonymous meaningless sex with.

(I’m generalizing, but I think you get my point)

So considering that the message is two fold of “hey its all forbidden anyway” and “to get rid of that urge you need to boink”, I don’t think we should be surprised that ex-gays may have a harder time staying sexually pure than their single heterosexual counterparts.

(I’ve never been in ex-gay ministries and am only going on what I see and hear from the outside, so if I’ve misstated anything, feel free to correct me)

And while this may seem way off topic, I think it does go to the heart of the legislation. The bill, as currently written, would legislate the concept of failing that I see in some ex-gay teaching.

Holding hands – a crime. Getting together with other gay people – a crime. And because these non-sexual aspects of gay life are the most visible, they would be the first to be eliminated or repressed.

So all that is left is anonymous meaningless sex. Which, while a crime, at least has some chance that it won’t be discovered. Laws like these eliminate all other outlets for urges but the most base, least redeeming, and socially least valuable.

As for mutual respect and courtesy, it may be worthwhile to ask your american compatriots to stop making racially charged comments which panders to western stereotypes of Africa and Africans. A case in point is the comment of one Debbie Thurman.

Just so I can be clear, are you saying I made such a stereotypical comment about Africa or Africans here or somewhere? Or are you saying something else? I’m a tad confused, Maazi NCO. I can’t figure out which hat I’m wearing in your view. Having been damned if I do or don’t too many times, maybe it doesn’t even matter.

We often hear that the same rules apply to SSA people and unmarried OSA people: chastity, and celibacy. But that isn’t exactly the case.

When an OSA guy sees an attractive girl and registers his attraction is isn’t considered a failing or a sin. I’m not talking harboring lust, just noticing and responding to attraction. Just thinking to yourself, “wow, she’s really hot!”

Yet if an ex-gay does this, it is a fall, a slip, and perhaps even a sin. It is generally considered to be entertaining or yielding to homosexuality.

Even if this is off-topic, this statement is SO packed with meaning, it takes time to tease all the threads out and see their implication. Timothy, with this statement, you’ve just packaged everything that needs calm, objective, interested, compassionate discussion. We SSA people, ex-gay, gay, or whatever, need companionship as much as str8 people. Thanks, Timothy, for getting to the ‘heart’ of all this.

Off-topic, but not really, it’s what this website is all about.

Thanks for informing Exodus. Out of a sense of shame and failure, they sometimes do not tell their helpers — and for obvious reasons, Exodus is not very open to listening to me.

Perhaps my post was not clear — some are involved in Exodus programs. Some have been trhough NARTH programs. Some are in in professional or pastoral counseling. And some are trying to do it on their own.

It should not be surprising to you or Exodus leadership that out of the “thousands upon thousands” of “successful” cases claimed by Exodus (and I don’t know how they would know who is “falling” and who isn’t) that a few hundred frequently fall each year.

Since Exodus is the largest organization of its kind, I doubt that Alan or Randy are unaware of the “falling” problem. I would be pleased if Exodus would pay more attention to these folks — and to the many “survivors” who have come forward publicly to tell their stories.

You are right, no Ugandan owes us any explanation. However, an individual who comes to this blog and speaks is somewhat bound by the rules of mutual respect and courtesy. When someone speaks in one of our blog forums but then doesn’t hang around to engage in dialogue or to answer questions, we regard that as a ‘hit and run’.