As storm clouds brewed in the near distance, about 1,300 people gathered at the grassy Makerere University sports grounds here for a special Sunday afternoon rally and prayer service that, its organizers said, was to discuss homosexuality, witchcraft, corruption and the fear of violence leading up to the country’s pres…idential election next year.

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The guest of honor, Lou Engle, an American evangelical from Kansas City, bowed up and down from his knees at the front of the stage. Mr. Engle, who helped found TheCall Ministries, a prayer group that focuses on moral issues, arrived last week in Uganda, where TheCall has opened a new chapter. His trip comes amid a heated debate throughout the country over a bill that would ban advocacy of gay rights and suggests the death penalty for homosexuals who have AIDS and engage in sexual relations.

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For much of Sunday’s service, the topic of homosexuality was slipped in between mentions of corruption and witchcraft; evils that Ugandans were told they should wish away. Unlike at other rallies, gay activists did not picket or protest. Instead they roamed the grounds quietly, watching from a distance. Though not originally linked to the Ugandan legislation, Mr. Engle has long been a controversial figure in the United States for his views on homosexuality. During California’s referendum on same-sex marriage in 2008, he called homosexuality a “spirit of lawlessness.”

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Before arriving here last week, Mr. Engle came out with a statement condemning the harsh penalties proposed in the bill, and said that his ministry could not support it. But when he took the stage late on Sunday afternoon, with Ugandan politicians and pastors looking on, he praised the country’s “courage” and “righteousness” in promoting the bill.

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“NGOs, the U.N., Unicef, they are all coming in here and promoting an agenda,” Mr. Engle said, referring to nongovernmental organizations. “Today, America is losing its religious freedom. We are trying to restrain an agenda that is sweeping through the education system. Uganda has become ground zero.”

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The bill’s sponsor, David Bahati, who attended Sunday’s service, said in an interview that it was likely that some of its harsher provisions, including the death penalty, would be taken out before its passage, which he said he expected soon. But, he said, the goal of the bill would remain the same. The turnout for the free prayer service, and the support from Mr. Engle, were a good sign, Mr. Bahati said.

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Moments after Mr. Engle and his entourage filed off of the athletic grounds, Uganda’s minister of ethics, James Buturo, another of the bill’s supporters, came on stage and told those assembled: “These are desperate times, but we will not accept intimidation. It is our business to do what God wants. Pray for Bahati, and pray for the bill.” And then the rains came.

Read More Here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/world/africa/03uganda.html

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A group of clergy in Kansas City this week criticized a local evangelist for attending a church rally this weekend in Uganda.

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The country is considering legislation that would allow the death penalty for homosexuals.

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The clergy group, called the Kansas City Coalition of Welcoming Congregations, urged Lou Engle, a co-founder of TheCall ministry based in Kansas City, not to spread a homophobic message.

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“Engle is known for his message of God’s wrath and has a track record of referring to gay people as having demons,” according to a statement by the coalition.

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Engle did not respond to requests for an interview, but in a statement posted on TheCall’s website he said he was unaware of the legislation when the rally was planned and “will not promote this bill.”

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He said his ministry supported Christian church leaders in Uganda who sought to protect “traditional and Biblical family foundations” but it does not promote hatred toward homosexuals.

Read more:

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/04/30/1915317/local-evangelist-is-criticized.html

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Dr Brown….. I don’t expect you to agree with me on this for a moment — it sounds far out and wacky unless you believe in these kinds of things — but I’m quite sure about the spirit and intent of Jesse’s work in San Francisco, and those that got to know him would find him to be a compassionate and caring young man.

Yes, you are definitely right about that; I don’t believe in fairy tales about demons or demonic powers.

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But more to the point I don’t think that those you imbue with this rhetoric necessarily discern any difference between a person being ‘demon possessed’ as Engle claims and a person being demonic. Being demonic – of or relating to a demon – doesn’t seem to be much of a distinction from Engle’s (demonic) ‘homosexual spirits.’ Especially whenn Engle says “the homosexuals boast the dominion of darkness” in the Castro. Most of them likely haven’t had class one in theology or even mythology.

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So you likely end up doing exactly what you seek to do, demonize a class of people whose ‘sin’ or ‘possessing spirit/demon’ is seen to be one which completely sets them aside from you and your followers. It all adds up to an act of degradation, to a consideration of us as less than human in most minds. So it comes back to you being absolutely right, I and many like me don”t believe in your fairy tales.

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I believe in angels and demons, but not in the way you do – I am also a Christian but you and I obviously differ in our beliefs regarding the faith – fyi 🙂

We don’t believe that any one group of people is possessed by demons, and I’m quite sure that what we’re speaking about is different than you what you understand when you hear the same words, but as I said to Lynn David, I don’t expect you to take talk about demons (or angels, for that matter) seriously unless it’s part of your own belief system or spiritual understanding.

In no way am I trying to split hairs, but since the “demon” talk is coming from Christians like Lou and me, then it’s important to explain what we mean. In listening to the clip (and in knowing Jesse Engle), Jesse went to San Francisco to serve (hence the reference to a “towel,” which was missed in the transliteration, along with the reference to his weeping for the LGBT community), and he opens the group home where he lived to people who were hurting and in need. And as some of them came to faith in Jesus, he came against demonic powers in their lives — just as I mentioned in my post to Warren that we believe sexual immorality of any kind, heterosexual or homosexual, opens a person up to demonic powers. But to say that the person himself or herself is demonic is another thing entirely and goes beyond what Lou said in his statement.

That being said, I don’t expect you to agree with me on this for a moment — it sounds far out and wacky unless you believe in these kinds of things — but I’m quite sure about the spirit and intent of Jesse’s work in San Francisco, and those that got to know him would find him to be a compassionate and caring young man.

Lou and some other Christians believe that there are many areas where demonic powers can gain access into people’s live — and sexual immorality is one of them

You can’t really argue, debate or have a reasoned conversation with people like this – when somebody or some religious group, Christian, Muslim, etc, claims that another group is possessed by demons, all you can do is pray that they don’t come to power

Dr Brown… So, Lou is not saying that the people are demonic but rather that homosexual practice is sinful and that there are demonic spirits that gain strongholds in people’s lives — including gays — through immorality, etc.

It would seem that you are ‘splitting-hairs’ with an aswer that would disinguously further set the goal posts beyond what you first demanded. That isn’t what you asked. That was:

….so I’m curious to know when you believe that Lou Engle characterized the homosexual community as demon possessed and evil.

And I believe that is what has been pointed out to you.

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Thanks so much for providing the link. I’ll look at it ASAP and then respond. Much appreciated.

As I’ve shared with you privately, I do understand why they’re worried, and I’m quite confident that when the event is over, they will find their fears to be false in this case. But as I also shared with you privately, since I have been falsely accused of potentially fomenting violence — which has as much as truth in it as does the fact the notion that you are the secret Muslim Imam — and when factual, undeniable evidence is presented to refute the false charges, activists opposing me bring up the same libel all the time. I’m still waiting for those who falsely accused me and others to say, “We’ve watched you carefully for years now and listened to your words, and we apologize for misrepresenting you.” To the contrary, the libels continue. I expect Lou will receive the same treatment as well.

As for saying that “homosexuals are demonic,” you are far from accurate. Lou and some other Christians believe that there are many areas where demonic powers can gain access into people’s live — and sexual immorality is one of them — and hence, when these people come to faith, they need deliverance. This would be in keeping with Jesus’ ministry in the New Testament, where He spent much of His time driving demons out of people — sick people and people oppressed or bound in other ways.

So, Lou is not saying that the people are demonic but rather that homosexual practice is sinful and that there are demonic spirits that gain strongholds in people’s lives — including gays — through immorality, etc.

My question to you would be this: Do you take seriously the biblical accounts that speak so frequently of demonic and Satanic activity? If so, where have all the demons gone? What has become of Satan? And doesn’t Paul tell us that all of us battle with Satanic powers in Ephesians 6:12? And doesn’t Jesus commission His followers to walk in His footsteps and drive out demons? (See also John 14:12)

Your thoughts?