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	<title>
	Comments on: Paul Kengor: God Gets His Healthcare Bill	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:20:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Mary		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38497</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38497</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How eqality and justiced are handed out depends a lot on personal beliefs.   This was a very philosophically charged issue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How eqality and justiced are handed out depends a lot on personal beliefs.   This was a very philosophically charged issue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jayhuck		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jayhuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Public practice of religious beliefs by a conservative is viewed as corrupting.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Often because they attempt to force their particular religious beliefs on others through legislation David - and  often, it seems, because they care more about their beliefs than about equality and justice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Public practice of religious beliefs by a conservative is viewed as corrupting.</p></blockquote>
<p>Often because they attempt to force their particular religious beliefs on others through legislation David &#8211; and  often, it seems, because they care more about their beliefs than about equality and justice.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jayhuck		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38495</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jayhuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38495</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kurtis - 



I did not dislike Bush, for the record - In many ways I thought he was a good man, but there is evidence that he misled the American people - why did Bush and Cheney say things that even the bad intelligence of the day did not support?  I agree he may not have done it for religious reasons, but I don&#039;t believe that his reasons were selfless either, or that he was doing it for some grand democratic agenda.  Why he did it you and I will probably never know, so its probably pointless to speculate - 



However, - this article which seems to whine about the treatment some religious conservatives get when they tolerate or foster so much fear-mongering!  The anti-gay marriage ads, and the anti-muslim sentiments so prevalent in this country for awhile sure were not coming from the left.  These folks may have been screaming because they are passionate about these things but that doesn&#039;t mean the speech isn&#039;t filled with intolerance or prejudice or bigotry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kurtis &#8211; </p>
<p>I did not dislike Bush, for the record &#8211; In many ways I thought he was a good man, but there is evidence that he misled the American people &#8211; why did Bush and Cheney say things that even the bad intelligence of the day did not support?  I agree he may not have done it for religious reasons, but I don&#8217;t believe that his reasons were selfless either, or that he was doing it for some grand democratic agenda.  Why he did it you and I will probably never know, so its probably pointless to speculate &#8211; </p>
<p>However, &#8211; this article which seems to whine about the treatment some religious conservatives get when they tolerate or foster so much fear-mongering!  The anti-gay marriage ads, and the anti-muslim sentiments so prevalent in this country for awhile sure were not coming from the left.  These folks may have been screaming because they are passionate about these things but that doesn&#8217;t mean the speech isn&#8217;t filled with intolerance or prejudice or bigotry.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38494</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38494</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well observed, Paul.   Thanks for your contributions.



Concern about the separation of church and state, is mainly verbalized by the left.  



From the right, involvement of church and state often involves moral demands on the individual



From the left, involvement of church and state often involves moral and financial demands placed on the individual.



Public practice of religious beliefs by a conservative is viewed as corrupting.



Public practice of religious beliefs by a liberal is viewed as inspiring.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well observed, Paul.   Thanks for your contributions.</p>
<p>Concern about the separation of church and state, is mainly verbalized by the left.  </p>
<p>From the right, involvement of church and state often involves moral demands on the individual</p>
<p>From the left, involvement of church and state often involves moral and financial demands placed on the individual.</p>
<p>Public practice of religious beliefs by a conservative is viewed as corrupting.</p>
<p>Public practice of religious beliefs by a liberal is viewed as inspiring.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kurtis		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38493</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38493</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I meant to say &quot;don&#039;t be a Kengor&quot;.  My point being you, Jayhuck, shouldn&#039;t accuse the &quot;right&quot; of having a double standard when it&#039;s two different people/organizations in question.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to say &#8220;don&#8217;t be a Kengor&#8221;.  My point being you, Jayhuck, shouldn&#8217;t accuse the &#8220;right&#8221; of having a double standard when it&#8217;s two different people/organizations in question.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kurtis		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38492</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38492</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I will tell you Jayhuck: the term Messianic Militarist implies that he went to war for religious reasons.  He did not.  Some may have supported him for those reason, but &quot;don&#039;t be a Nader&quot;: the whole right doesn&#039;t have the same standard.  That&#039;s why it&#039;s an inappropriate label.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will tell you Jayhuck: the term Messianic Militarist implies that he went to war for religious reasons.  He did not.  Some may have supported him for those reason, but &#8220;don&#8217;t be a Nader&#8221;: the whole right doesn&#8217;t have the same standard.  That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s an inappropriate label.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kurtis		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38491</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38491</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The problem, Jayhuck, is that you only use extreme rhetoric if you feel extremely passionate about something.  Very few people &quot;scream&quot; from the middle-of-the-road.



Ultimately, while I am annoyed by the amount of money (and thus political traction) that both sides of the aisle generate with this stuff, I find being amused by it more satisfying that worrying about it.  Thankfully it seems to (mostly) balance itself out.



The volume and creatively of logic my four year old can reach when he wants a cookie and doesn&#039;t get it is impressive, but it doesn&#039;t make his argument any more valid.  :-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem, Jayhuck, is that you only use extreme rhetoric if you feel extremely passionate about something.  Very few people &#8220;scream&#8221; from the middle-of-the-road.</p>
<p>Ultimately, while I am annoyed by the amount of money (and thus political traction) that both sides of the aisle generate with this stuff, I find being amused by it more satisfying that worrying about it.  Thankfully it seems to (mostly) balance itself out.</p>
<p>The volume and creatively of logic my four year old can reach when he wants a cookie and doesn&#8217;t get it is impressive, but it doesn&#8217;t make his argument any more valid.  🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jayhuck		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38490</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jayhuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38490</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And please tell me how Messianic Militarist is an incorrect label? OK, maybe its a little over the top but  I don&#039;t remember Obama starting an unnecessary war?  Nope - but he sure has to clean one up , doesn&#039;t he - falling on his sword in the process]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And please tell me how Messianic Militarist is an incorrect label? OK, maybe its a little over the top but  I don&#8217;t remember Obama starting an unnecessary war?  Nope &#8211; but he sure has to clean one up , doesn&#8217;t he &#8211; falling on his sword in the process</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jayhuck		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38489</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jayhuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38489</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What this guy wrote is the kind of polarizing, rhetoric this country does not need any more of.  The difference between conservative Christians and some who are more moderate or perhaps &quot;left of center&quot;, is that the latter tend less, in my experience,  to try and force their particular religious views on others through legislation.  They seem to care more about equality and social justice than the former.  I mean, where have all the anti-gay ads and some of the anti-muslim rhetoric come from? - not usually from the moderate or left of center.  If conservative religious folk want people not to jump on them and call them theocrats, then maybe they need to reign some of their hate-mongering folk in just a little]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What this guy wrote is the kind of polarizing, rhetoric this country does not need any more of.  The difference between conservative Christians and some who are more moderate or perhaps &#8220;left of center&#8221;, is that the latter tend less, in my experience,  to try and force their particular religious views on others through legislation.  They seem to care more about equality and social justice than the former.  I mean, where have all the anti-gay ads and some of the anti-muslim rhetoric come from? &#8211; not usually from the moderate or left of center.  If conservative religious folk want people not to jump on them and call them theocrats, then maybe they need to reign some of their hate-mongering folk in just a little</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kurtis		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2010/03/23/paul-kengor-god-gets-his-healthcare-bill/#comment-38488</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=6294#comment-38488</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rule of thumb: *never* be surprised when people evoke God in the public sphere in support of their opinions, and never be surprised when another group of people label them crazy theocrats.  I&#039;m not saying there aren&#039;t people of real faith in politics (I&#039;m sure there are) but the existence of the misrepresentations made by both sides of the aisle is easily demonstrated.



Pulling an example from &quot;The Religious Institute&quot; (which a quick visit to their website shows has a statement only 3,300 religious leaders has signed) which claims a multifaith basis and a clear left-of-center bias as his example of misuse of faith is fine.  To extrapolate from it that it represents the same views as Ralph Nader and Lawrence O’Donnell to show a double standard is incorrect: I suspect many members of The Religious Institute, while they might not agree with Bush&#039;s decision, would&#039;ve felt &quot;seeking guidance&quot; entirely appropriate.  For a double standard to exist, it has to be the *same* standard (by the same person or well-defined group - and &quot;the left&quot; is not a well defined group) applied inequitably.



I doubt Dr. Kengor likes being compared to Nader, but his rhetoric here is similar: as long as Jesus supports my ideology (i.e. told me it&#039;s okay to go to war) then referencing Him is allowed in the public sphere.  If He doesn&#039;t (i.e. supports a pro-choice agenda) then it deserves to be labelled inappropriate.



Keep in mind I&#039;m not saying I disagree with Kengor&#039;s views on abortion, merely that he&#039;s engaging in the very double standard he says annoyed him under Bush.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rule of thumb: *never* be surprised when people evoke God in the public sphere in support of their opinions, and never be surprised when another group of people label them crazy theocrats.  I&#8217;m not saying there aren&#8217;t people of real faith in politics (I&#8217;m sure there are) but the existence of the misrepresentations made by both sides of the aisle is easily demonstrated.</p>
<p>Pulling an example from &#8220;The Religious Institute&#8221; (which a quick visit to their website shows has a statement only 3,300 religious leaders has signed) which claims a multifaith basis and a clear left-of-center bias as his example of misuse of faith is fine.  To extrapolate from it that it represents the same views as Ralph Nader and Lawrence O’Donnell to show a double standard is incorrect: I suspect many members of The Religious Institute, while they might not agree with Bush&#8217;s decision, would&#8217;ve felt &#8220;seeking guidance&#8221; entirely appropriate.  For a double standard to exist, it has to be the *same* standard (by the same person or well-defined group &#8211; and &#8220;the left&#8221; is not a well defined group) applied inequitably.</p>
<p>I doubt Dr. Kengor likes being compared to Nader, but his rhetoric here is similar: as long as Jesus supports my ideology (i.e. told me it&#8217;s okay to go to war) then referencing Him is allowed in the public sphere.  If He doesn&#8217;t (i.e. supports a pro-choice agenda) then it deserves to be labelled inappropriate.</p>
<p>Keep in mind I&#8217;m not saying I disagree with Kengor&#8217;s views on abortion, merely that he&#8217;s engaging in the very double standard he says annoyed him under Bush.</p>
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