if you read the passage in 1 Corinthians 10 correctly you will see that the Apostle Paul did not mean ‘everything’ when he used the word ‘everything.’ just prior to these words he gives a list of things which are not permissable to – read the beginning of chapter 10 – i note verse 7 ff gives a list of things that christians are not to engage in – one of them being sexual immorality (verse 8). Personally it appears that Miller etc have moved from the christian faith if they say gay lifestly is acceptable before God.

i dont understand the paradigm/framework material but i do understand that all of us are called to live holy and obedient lives before God – that means sexual relationships, especially sexual intercourse, is to for marriage between one man and one woman and outside of that God-ordained context it is sinful and therefore not the way a chriistian should live or behave. the challenge of yoru orientation is actually immaterial to that biblical standard – there are as many heterosexual christians who are living immoral lives before God and need to repent of their sinful sexual behaviour as there are those whose orientation/attraction is homosexual.

there is a whole chapter entitled “The Big Five” where Marin does this. Don’t believe me – go read the book!

Phelim, I’ve read Marin’s book twice, three times if you count the early draft which led me to endorse it. And I just read the chapter you mentioned again. No where in there do I find him making such a declaration. What hermeneutics exist appear to be well sourced.

I love your posts and respect you a great deal, but please just be careful about your choice of words, I know you did not mean any harm, but – when you say things like:

For Miller and Nicolosi to say that the only two options are to change your sexual orientation or go live a gay lifestyle is abandoning a Christian ethic,

I think what you mean is YOUR definition and understanding of a Christian Ethic – the comment above appears to contradict the feelings of a large number of gay Christians who don’t believe that their innate sexuality, or practicing it in certain ways, is sinful.

Also Warren, are you going to answer my questions about Narth and reparative therapy?

David Roberts – there is a whole chapter entitled “The Big Five” where Marin does this. Don’t believe me – go read the book!

They leave no room for Christians who are same-sex attracted, who have not experienced orientation change and do not wish to preoccupy themselves with it,

Which, I understand, is the majority of same sex attracted people with these feelings.

Oh yes, have you read Marin’s book yet? If so what do you make of his chapter where he argues that we misinterpret the Bible and homosexuality isn’t actually sin?

Phelim, you will need to provide a page number or numbers to reference what you state here as I do not believe it to be true.