This is an ongoing site…been around for years with (usually) ever changing topics (although we’ve been on non-stop Uganda for a month or so.) Anyway, we’ve discussed gay marriage before and I’m sure we’ll discuss it again. It does happen to be way off this topic and your tone suggests that you won’t be particularly open to opinions that differ from yours…so perhaps it would be best saved for another day.

Ah, but if not, by using the seach button up near the right top of the page, you could likely tap into some past discussion on ‘gay marriage’. Most of the threads remain open regardless of how old they are. If you find one where the conversation intrigues you, feel free to comment there. Most people who were heavily involved in the conversation likely ‘subscribed’ to it, so they’d be notified that a new comment has come in.

That point wasn’t lost on me! 🙂

The law is actually 200 years old (and adultery is a lot older than that) and it originally punished convicted adulterers with an hour standing on the gallows with a noose around the neck (that’d kill most lustful thoughts, I’d imagine), or 39 lashes or a year in jail or a fine of 100 pounds, which was probably a lot more then than it sounds now. Modernity being what it is, the penalty has been reduced to a $1,200 fine — and no time on the gallows — and it now may go by the boards entirely.

Found here: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/12/14/new-hampshire-to-legalize-adultery-gay-marriage-is-a-slippery-s/

Michael Bussee…. I have spoken at a lot of conferences, and I always had a pretty good idea of the agenda, the schedule, the mission of the sponsoring organization, who else would be speaking, etc. Conference speakers need to be as well-informed as possible to avoid being pulled into something they might regret later.

I would think this would be especially important when traveling to speak in another country — particularly one that already criminalizes homosexuality — considering that Exodus’ President and Vice President both oppose it

While Dr Throckmorton was among the first to state that, this fellow has said much the same, but at the same time calls out conservative Christians:

I’d like to think that American Christian leaders have nothing to do with the direction that Uganda’s government is sliding towards, but I know it’s not true. For starters, I’ve been to Uganda and have lived and traveled extensively throughout Africa. Based on my experience, the level of influence that American pastors, evangelists, and missionaries have in predominately Christian countries in Africa is astronomical, especially when you consider how many African churches and ministries are dependent on American support. As difficult as it may be to believe, in most English speaking countries in Africa, American televangelists are like rock stars. The way the average Ugandan feels towards people like T.D. Jakes, Reinhard Bonnke, and Benny Hinn is what the average American feels towards people like—ironically—Bono. If I’m exaggerating, it’s only slightly.

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Lest I be misunderstood, I’m not suggesting that the above-mentioned leaders are guilty of stoking anti-gay bigotry in Uganda. I use their names only to underscore the fact that, in most cases, American Christian leaders wield a greater influence over the pop-culture in African countries than they do in their own country. Even pastors of small to mid-sized congregations in the U.S. can go to countries like Uganda or Kenya or Nigeria and preach to tens of thousands of people at a time—and maybe even meet with the country’s leaders. It happens every day. American Christianity has enormous influence in Africa. With great influence comes great responsibility.

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Let’s not forget that there was a man about 80 years ago that came to power on the platform of criminalizing consensual gay sex. His name was Hitler. There’s a reason why the Apostle Paul said to the Corinthian Church, “For what have I to do with judging those who are outside?” (I Corinthians 5:12) Paul must have known that when Christians try to legislate morality outside the confines of spiritual discipline within the Church, the result is usually an ugly monster that looks nothing like Christ. It’s time for American pastors, missionaries, and evangelists, along with our African brothers and sisters declare loudly to the world—not in our name!

You’ll find a bit morre a tthe link, but it is mostly introductory.

That said, I’m still a bit incredulous that Exodus didn’t understand (1) what LIvely stood for or (2) that Don “didn’t know much about the conference” when he agreed to speak there or (3) that he thought he was the “only speaker” and (4) “was surprised to hear that Caleb Lee Brundidge of the International Healing Foundation and Dr. Scott Lively of Defend the Family International would be speaking as well.”

I have spoken at a lot of conferences, and I always had a pretty good idea of the agenda, the schedule, the mission of the sponsoring organization, who else would be speaking, etc. Conference speakers need to be as well-informed as possible to avoid being pulled into something they might regret later.

I would think this would be especially important when traveling to speak in another country — particularly one that already criminalizes homosexuality — considering that Exodus’ President and Vice President both oppose it

I would still like to understand: Why didn’t he know much about the conference? Why would he assume that he was the only speaker? (I never have been the only speaker at a conference.) Didn’t the conference organizers tell him? Didn’t he ask?

Perhaps it’s all true, but I really want to believe that Exodus and its Board members are sharper than that. If they really were that uniformed, I would imagine they have learned a lot since. I suppose we all have.

Michael Bussee….. Considering the seriousness of the Uganda blunder, it might be time to re-think the “loose-knit coalition model”. When they join the coalition, I believe that Exodus Board members and affiliates should all sign an agreement that they will uphold and promote the policies and mission of Exodus whether or not they are speaking on Exodus’ behalf.

If you believe the ‘cross-Atlantic airplane conversation‘ then Don Schmierer definitely considered that he was speaking for and doing the work of Exodus International while in Uganda.

Mary…. Did they (Exodus) oppose the sodomy laws in Texas? I don’t think so.

I’ve never quite been sure. This statement from Exodus was issued after Lawrence v. Texas was announced. In it both Chambers and Thomas seem to be lamenting the fact that no law could now be in force against homosexual conduct. Thomas completely muddles his thought by saying lawmakers should extend grace through their laws; what he meant I have no idea. Although he did say states have the right to make laws against homosexual activity (and yet it was Lawrence which said states could not do so). So…. I don’t know.

Where the creators of these laws missed the boat is that instead of denouncing sin and offering grace, they created a criminal law.

The Exodus piece was written 6 years ago. Perhaps, with the passge of time and in light of the current events, Exodus is making it even clearer how they really feel now.

I know I said I wouldn’t repeat myself (sorry), but this is an example of why an official policy statement — one that all Exodus members and affiliates agree to support and abide by, whether or not they are speaking on behalf of Exodus, could be helpful. It could help keep their message and their actions clear and consistent.

I am choosing to believe that Alan Chambers, as Exodus’ President, is taking this opportunity to clarify that Exodus is in fact opposed to criminalization and forced treatment. I know some activists will be disappointed in me for saying this — but I believe him.