Comments on: APA Monitor on the APA sexual orientation and therapy report

By: James

James — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:32:13 +0000

uhh “faculty”… can’t edit?

By: James

James — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:31:42 +0000

My Faulty advisor and I discussed the article this morning. She took a copy and mentioned that this is the cutting edge of the issue within the APA.

By: Debbie Thurman

Debbie Thurman — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:50:29 +0000

And Thom — bless you, too, buddy. You do articulate the transformed life well from a male point of view. That is essential since we women are put into a different box.

By: Debbie Thurman

Debbie Thurman — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:47:33 +0000

For all the changing, some things have not changed. This makes the value-based work different for them. In understanding their situation from a ministry point of view, they have changed a lot. From a science point of view, they have perhaps only changes their sexual arousal pattern a little. However, to fracture a phrase, a little can be much when God is in it. It is still a little to the scientist, but it might be just enough to the one seeking a preferred set of valued behaviors.

Warren, thank you so much for saying this. The APA task force may or may not have truly understood what the literature has shown in terms of religiously mediated “change,” but they have rightly observed something they believed worthy of respectfully pointing out. And you are the ideal person to say what you said above. Bless you.

By: Lynn David

Lynn David — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 07:52:53 +0000

Warren asked... David, what fight is Julie fighting?

As prez of NARTH (imprecise science), Homosexuality 101. and perhaps John 8:32 “Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free…?” Though as to the modifier 'reasonable'....

By: Warren

Warren — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 02:45:06 +0000

We need to understand the point of the distinction the APA makes. Claims have been made in the context of political discussions that gays can change and so the trait is inherently flexible. Take the politics out of it and we can talk about degrees and behavior versus impulse with less consequence.

Some people have changed something, that seems sure. But what? I have talked with many who said in a public venue that they used to be gay and now they are straight. However, they are not heterosexual in any sense I could understand when they continue to experience attraction to the same sex. They have added some straight attraction, they may feel less attracted toward the same sex, in fact going for weeks without a “temptation.” However, they have experiences regarding the same-sex that heterosexuals will rarely or never have. For all the changing, some things have not changed. This makes the value-based work different for them. In understanding their situation from a ministry point of view, they have changed a lot. From a science point of view, they have perhaps only changes their sexual arousal pattern a little. However, to fracture a phrase, a little can be much when God is in it. It is still a little to the scientist, but it might be just enough to the one seeking a preferred set of valued behaviors.

And yes, flexibility seems more characteristic of women.

David, what fight is Julie fighting?

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 02:01:39 +0000

Again,

Isn’t change more likely for women than for men?

Julie is fighting a reasonable fight, with very imprecise science…she needs to get very specific about “what is likely to change.”

By: Ann

Ann — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:20:28 +0000

I just wanted to chime in a bit on Eddy’s question. I’m not aware of any other situation that has to meet the high standard of not just stopping behavior but being able to say you no longer even are tempted or have thoughts and impulses. If that is the measure of success, then success is immeasurable.

Thom Hunter,

No matter how many times I have tried to articulate this I have never done as good a job as you just did. Thank you so much.

By: Ann

Ann — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:03:16 +0000

Is there another scenario where change isn’t just about cessation of a behavior but also scores any lingering impulses, even though they aren’t acted upon, as lack of change?

Eddy,

I am thinking but so far have not been able to come up with one.

By: Thom Hunter

Thom Hunter — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:48:33 +0000

I just wanted to chime in a bit on Eddy’s question. I’m not aware of any other situation that has to meet the high standard of not just stopping behavior but being able to say you no longer even are tempted or have thoughts and impulses. If that is the measure of success, then success is immeasurable. I, for one, and I know many others, will indeed consider it successful change just to no longer act out in any way. There are many who will settle for controlled impulses or thoughts and consider themselves very much changed in light of personal history. I don’t think we will ever know for certain how many people are able to walk away from homosexuality permanently because most of them will never say. They will be so enamored with the freedom that they will build their lives in a new way and be satisfied not to share the success because it requires revelation of past pain. Were my situation not so fully public, I would be in that group, even though we need more and more former homosexuals to proclaim the reality of the power to change.