In my opinion and experience, a relationship is comprised of two halves, in our case, male/female. What one half does clearly effects the other, good or bad. But the main idea is to integate the whole, not just to build, support or emphasise the differences in one half at the expense of the other, if you are in such a committed relationsip. We are.

My husband is beginning to see that emphasising this dynamic of only seeing individual maleness extends into all platonic and personal relationships, which are inevitably comprised of both male and female parts.

It appears to me that there needs to be a more balanced understanding and exploration in MKP of this dynamic. Whilst it is great to know your own authenticity, or truth, it is critical to know that this relative truth is not universal, therefore not right in the absolute sense, ones personal authenticity need not dictate that any other is wrong, or flawed whatever the gender may be. If one is confident in this personal authenticity, I mean truly comfortable, one easily accepts differences, in fact may enjoy them without feeling threatened, forced to adopt them, or may even detest certain views without the need to change them, or deem them wrong in the absolute sense.

This is the danger zone for me and MKP. It is very one-sided (male), emphasising manhood, as opposed to first learning about what it means to each man to be a man, but then expanding into recognising that a female experience, or non MKP man’s experience is as valid as his own. Greater male and female understanding may even enhance ones journey. This is why initiation rituals take place at such a young age in tribal cultures. Whilst fundamental, they happen early so there is then room for expansion into greater understanding and consciousness with maturity. But I agree, one has to start with oneself, ones own gender, and better late than never:)

Human pain and struggle is universal, not exclusive to one gender. To stay focused on this one male/female element of oneself, can be destructive, rather than constructive. To keep emphasising one’s personal experience as being absolutely right as an individual gender can become extreme. To see the differences between men and women is only a small step into seeing what we truly are. Staying on this level, and emphasising this one element of manhood or femalehood is a stepping stone. But wars are fought due to this mentality of resting at this individual egoic level.

As a female, I feel it my responsibility to try to understand as best I can what my male perceives, desires and needs. MKP may hopefully help my husband to be able to share these things more intimately with me. To focus only on my personal female mission within the context any relationship is counterproductive. So for me, my husband and what is right for him, always comes in to play.

I feel that MKP could one day evolve to incorporate any gender. At minimum they could better prepare and include the spouses. I know there is a sister counterpart, but I believe that it too is limited for the exact same reasons. I have done many such group experiences, single and mixed gender, so now clearly see the benefit of intimacy amongst people, not just one sex. I recognise there is a time and place for single gender exploration. But MKP doesnt seem to recognise that there is a point when we don’t need to focus on gender, and I hope MKP will one day see that bonding, intimacy and knowing oneself is universally applicable, despite gender differences. So is pain, dealing with it, and growing as an individual. Sharing is critical. Neither men nor women need to loose their personal gender attribute. But there is much more to life than recognising and solidifying male female aspects. I would like to see such an evolution for MKP.

My husband very gradually came to admit he completely mismanaged communication upon his return and sees that the lack thereof caused my issues, not his discoveries, and beneficial changes. Again, MKP should have and easily could have prepared both of us to potentially expect and negotiate such profound shifting. But that responsibility ultimately fell more largely on my husband, and he accepts that. An open sharing policy, recognising that females do indeed have the capacity to expand their understanding of men, would have avoided a great deal of suffering for both of us. Perhaps MKP will one day incorporate the expansion of this element and understand and include the female experience of watching transformation, and vice versa.

I have benefitted greatly from seeing men in the groups I have been involved with experiencing carpet work, although it wasn’t called by this name, it was the exact same process, and men have greatly benefitted from seeing mine and other women. I challenge MKP to expand their horizons for those bold enough to look beyond the element of masculinity. Trust me, it won’t ever disappear because you forget to focus on it:)

My wife came with me to the “New Brothers Celebration” not long after the weekend. She spoke publicly about how much the weekend had helped me. She continues to see the experience as valuable in my life and is happy I went. As a follow up to the weekend, I attend a free I-Group almost every week and it continues to provide me a great source of support which my wife is also grateful for.

I wanted to add that I am a Christian and was not comfortable with a couple of the rituals but felt no pressure to participate in them. I was respected for my stand. No one is forced to participate in any part of the weekend if they do not want to. So, I found the experience intense, challenging, AND safe. When I read many of the comments on this thread I can’t believe that people are talking about the same weekend that I attended. Regarding the money, on the last day they explained that three of the leaders got paid and they explained how much. When you figure in the cost of renting the facility, and other normal expenses, I found the cost reasonable. By no means did I feel that it was a financial scam.

Absolutely, it’s not for every man, and MKP recognizes that, but it was an amazing experience for me and judging from the reactions of the other men who attended, it was for them too. The only regret I have is that I didn’t do it sooner.

He went in with some issues, like everyone I know, But he had some very profound discoveries, and seems to be peaceful in himself. I must emphasise seems… I finally came to this way of describing how he feels to me now, or how I perceive him. It is as if when something confronts him, he goes into his mind, decides to be peaceful, then takes a very unmoving stance with regard to his response, whatever he has chosen to do, in contrast to the easily flowing discussion we used to have.

I feel blocked from reaching him once he has decided. Nothing gets in once he decides. He claims to be still processing.

I don’t know who to ask if this is “normal” after such a weekend, but some how to me it is lacking in heart and spontaneity, I.e. truth to some degree. If I had to go into my head every time I spoke, I would be forever censoring and not living. I am not saying this behaviour is constant, but enough that I see a pattern. There is a lot more contemplation when anything he might perceive as negative comes up. He gets a strange smile on his face if I get frustrated or angry, and it is irksome.

I received the usual comment upon his immediate return about only sharing his experience, which placated me for a few days. But it isn’t enough. He has really changed, and a lot of that is fabulous, truly it is. But this new behaviour is, well, new and I feel somehow it is disengaged with me. Yet on another level, he has lost a heck of a lot of compulsions. But are they now replaced with some other ingrained mental process? Is that being comfortable and freely alive, and will this change?

I struggle very much with the secrecy and confidentiality as we promised long ago to always be honest and never conceal the truth, no matter how painful. We never had anything to refuse discussion about before. Inserting this new group of people and having such intimacy with them does make me jealous, and I have expressed that. Whilst I want him to be happy, it just doesnt feel right. He says it is me (nothing really new there:), but I honestly cant explain exactly what exactly threatens me, but MKP on some level feels wrong to me.

I read as much as I can about what goes on at MKP and the substance does not disturb me. I can imagine it quite horrible for some, and quite powerful for others. But playing with some one’s mind is precious. With no psychological expertise or experience, I am frightened by what they might do. Not what they have done, but it is hard to rest easy knowing people with perhaps not enough experience are recreating his mind.

I have agreed to wait and see, but I cannot feel good about this. Can any MKP person explain this? Thanks!

I do not have any personal experience with MKP, and like you, have read many of the comments – I do remember some positive ones and more negative ones. I like to read and hear personal stories more than opinions – everyone experiences life differently and this should be respected. Your story and experience makes sense to me and I am glad you posted it.

Scott

Thank you for sharing your journey with us, Scott. It is enlightening in many ways. But, I’m prompted to ask a question, if you care to share. Is your journey one of being a gay man, and now you’re str8 … or, simply one of maturing into a healthier man: a better husband and father?

I vowed I wasn’t going to be like him. I went into the service and when I got out I married and settled down. So instead of what my father represented (a tyrant) I became its opposite (a wimp). I gave over my power in the marriage to my wife and could not stand up to her without fearing my anger would turn to my father’s rage. The marriage didn’t work as we weren’t equals and I left it full of shame and fear.

I hid in University, went from support group (Adult Children of Alcoholics) to Cognitive Therapy, Catholic Social Services and eventually ended up in a psychoanalytic relationship that lasted 6 years. It was successful in a lot of ways – I did a lot of work and grew a lot – a lot of my big issues were teased apart and I was able to engage in a lively marriage and lovely career – both that I still enjoy. But the psychoanalysis left me with a lot of issues unpacked but without any sense or skill in putting the threads into a working package I could work with. It was too much in my head. I still didn’t trust myself among men and I was concerned because in my new marriage I have two boys without what I call a healthy paradigm to represent manhood.

So I looked around – tried Buddhism, Catholicism, Paganism – and I was drawn to CG Jung’s collection “The Earth Has a Soul”. I read more about this, studied more on Jung’s idea of Archetypes, Sam Keane’s work, Robert Bly’s,Campbell, and Gillette and Moore’s work on the Archetypal Energies King, Warrior, Magician, Lover.

Looking for more information on the web, I found that there was this group called Mankind Project and I went to an I group and eventually did the weekend. We worked on a superficial vision and mission statement, did GUTS work, danced and were with each other. By the end of the weekend I was on cloud 9 – like some others have noted. My personal Cloud 9 was because for the first time in my life I felt love by other men and I was happy and smiling thrilled at the experience I had endured.

It’s easy to throw stones, and healthy skepticism is healthy. But I’ve found this to be a place that a man can belong to that encourages him to figure out what he wants/vision (King), to stay connected to his values and family (Lover), to think things through (Magician) and to work towards building his life for the greater good (New Warrior). For me, it was and remains refreshingly simple and unscholarly. The archetypes become a tool which I use in the here and now to figure out where I am and what I need to engage with (internally) to move through my day.

After my weekend, in my marriage as well as in my job, I’m personally less aggressive – a bit more assertive – I stand my ground when needed, more thoughtful, and more authentic than I was before. I can stay connected to my feelings even when talking about hot topics and have found a place to learn to trust myself and to trust men.

I’ve taken on a leadership position in my community and run an Open I group as well as help with our elected council, training men through the weekend and also through trainings independent of that specific experience.

I would recommend that if you are committed to understanding the theory behind MKP that you read the book by Moore and Gillette, “King, Warrior, Magician, Lover”. ISBN 0-06-250597-1. It’s an easy read and I would also suggest that you do a weekend. It might be a challenge to get you away from your desk and into a circle, but it sounds like it might be a risk you want to take. There are also Open Circles – groups that are open to men who have done the weekend and those who have not.

I would personally love for you to do our next upcoming weekend in the Laurentian Mountains, just north of Montreal the last weekend in May – the weather is lovely, the men are authentic. It was a real game changer for me. Email me and I’ll send you an application, or if you are ever in Montreal we have an Open Circle I group Tuesday nights.

The cost of the weekend is 700.00 Canadian Dollars. To staff I pay 150.00. The Open I groups are free

Cheers.

Scott Addis

I group leader

Community Coordinator

MKP Canada East