The “Fluidly” argument of ‘now I’m Gay’, ‘now I am Straight’ makes all LGBT sound crazy and sexually confused. It gives religious fanatics all the ammunition it needs against the LGBT community.

It is also bull shit. If you are sexually attracted to both genders to any degree — you are bisexual. And therapy or misidentification can not change that

Work what issues, Tom? I had no issues to work save that I am definitely oriented to men not just sexually but romantically. I started trying to change that at the age of 20 with a psychologist. It didn’t work then or when I tried again at 25. Why? Because there was no issue other than my sexuality.

LD, if you went into therapy because of pressure from someone other than yourself then I can understand your anger. Obviously, Tom should not be calling people imbeciles. However, just as his circumstance should not dictate yours neither should your circumstance dictate another persons. Some people really do change and some people really do have issues that contribute to their sexual dissatisfaction. You are not one of them.

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You seem to have found one or two or more, or at least made one up to fool yourself into believing you could change. I wouldn’t be so blunt but you’ve been pretty sure of yourself to call those such as me names like an “imbeciles.” I have known a few ex-gays and most all have not exhibited the lack of understanding that you have. Ok, there was the one guy who claimed to be ex-gay and that the Toronto Blessing (laughing and carrying on) had cured him. But then he claimed all gay men were child molesters, so I just had to ask him how many he had molested while gay. It’s just that you remind me of him.

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It’s simple people. Work your issues. Question your beliefs. Get in touch with all the enormity that is you. Get in touch with the conflict, the dichotomies. Hear your internal dialogue if you can. Be present to everything that has happened to you. Cry, Rage, Laugh …. you can’t help but change. But if some idiot shrink isn’t sure you can change, then the odds of them being able to help you change aren’t very good are they? If you don’t believe you can change, the odds of you changing are pretty low. And if all you want to do is deal with the issue on some surface level doing mental masturbation, instead of genuine emotive work … then prepare to go nowhere ….. work your issues, change of sexuality is a by product

Thank you for posting. I am a believer in change. The mantra of fixed sexuality has been devasting to many people. We don’t have to accept homosexuality OR heterosexuality as being “it”.

I’ve been straight for some 20 years. Started reorienting myself at 23. Was so gay I at times wished I was a woman so my desires and actions would be acceptable. And now, what do you know… I’m straight. Not some idiot saying they are straight when they have no lusts for women. Straight as in I love T&A and marriage seems a drag because I see women I’d like to have sex with numerous times a week. Sometimes several times a day.

Wake up, if the course you are taking or the psychologist or analysts you are working with aren’t facilitating change – then fire them, they have proven themselves to be blithering idiots… Then find a different direction.

But no, here I read this theoretical position, or that theoretical position, or that hypothetical or this hypothetical. If you want to never change, or for the shrinks … if you want to never be capable of facilitating change, then you’re on the right track here. I didn’t read all the comments but of the tremendous number I did, it’s apparent no common sense abounds here.

It’s simple people. Work your issues. Question your beliefs. Get in touch with all the enormity that is you. Get in touch with the conflict, the dichotomies. Hear your internal dialogue if you can. Be present to everything that has happened to you. Cry, Rage, Laugh …. you can’t help but change. But if some idiot shrink isn’t sure you can change, then the odds of them being able to help you change aren’t very good are they? If you don’t believe you can change, the odds of you changing are pretty low. And if all you want to do is deal with the issue on some surface level doing mental masturbation, instead of genuine emotive work … then prepare to go nowhere ….. work your issues, change of sexuality is a by product.

Some change is still change. It doesn’t have to be complete to be real or significant.

Some people do report some shift in sexaual orientation, including the development of sexual feelings for their spouse, for example. This is very noteworthy and suggests need for more study.

I have also heard a few stories of complete transtormation from gay to straight — and even though these are rare, they ought to be taken seriously

Change in orientation from homosexuality to heterosexuality may be possible or impossible. Reorientation therapy may harm no one or everyone. Gayness may be inherently pathological or completely healthy.

I tend towards some of the extremes on some of these, as you well know.

On change: Lots of changes for gays are possible. Sexual behavior and sexuality identity seem to be more flesxible than sexual orientation. Change from SSA-only to OSA only, if it happens at all, is extremely rare.

I realize that this was directed to Warren but I’ve been mulling over it for the past hour. I’ve been wracking my brain trying to come up with some parallel in the world of psychology where we define ‘change’ as the complete and absolute change of not only behavior but attraction? Smoking cessation doesn’t discount their success by occasional desires to smoke. Overeating? Gambling? Compulsive lying?

In the phrase “Change from SSA-only to OSA only”, I hear absolutes. That the ‘change from’ means “none, nada, zilch” attractions to the same gender..and that the ‘change to’ means a generalized attraction to all of the opposite gender.

The former discounts occasional temptation or remembrance (suggestive of amnesia)…even if quantified to less than 10%; the latter seems to discount true spousosexuality in favor of a more generalized attraction…even if that wasn’t the goal of the individual or their therapist. Am I right or am I reading into this statement.

1) Is this the new definition of ‘change’ that we’re all agreed on? Is this the ‘change’ that psychology is trying to measure? Is this their definition?

2) Are their other areas of therapy that are similar in this ‘absoluteness’? That judge not only change in behavior but absolute 360% change in attraction on an ‘all or nothing’ scale?

I dunno….it sounds extreme to me.

However, on this topic, we just don’t know much.

I know we are only talking opinions here and not established fatcs, but yo you have an opinion you would like to offer about the 3 extremes?

Do you think change is possible, impossible — or something in between?

Do you believe that reorientation therapy is never harmful, always harmful — or something in between?

Do you believe that increased mental health problems among gays is vitally important, irrelevant — or something in between — with regards to whether or not homosexuality, per se, is inherently pathological?

Here is what I believe, for what it might be worth:

On change: Lots of changes for gays are possible. Sexual behavior and sexuality identity seem to be more flesxible than sexual orientation. Change from SSA-only to OSA only, if it happens at all, is extremely rare.

On reoriention therapy: Very postive experience for some, very harmful experience for othes. Ex-ex-gays I have talked to report both — they were helped in some ways and harmed in others.

On inherent pathology : No. I do not believe that there is anythinig inherently pathological about gayness. I think it is possible that gays are more vulnerable and may therefore suffer more.

I would be interested in your thoughts, Warren, when you have time. As I said, please attend to other commenters first.

And this hasn’t come up specifically but I want to clarify that I do not believe homosexuality, per se, is pathological. I’m not even sure that homosexuals as a group have more pathologies than straights–even if you went by percentage. If anyone has any relevant statistics, it would be helpful to hear them.

So, if there is any research out there that supports Michael’s 3rd statement for consideration:

(3) Something may be inherently pathological about gayness.

Anyway, if there is any current research out there that supports this, I’m going to be a bit ticked at blog contributers (including Warren) who didn’t respond to my request as quoted above.