the negative personal experieces of Mr. Bussee and the way he chooses to live with his life choices should also not be espoused an example let alone as appropriate for a Christian.

Yes. I admit that I am a poor example — even on my good days. I have never suggested that others should follow my path — or use me as a model of appropriate Christian living.

God forbid! That is between them and the Lord. The only example we should follow is Jesus.

It’s a bit of a non-sequitur on that thread but at least it does have the ‘church’ tie in; I’m not sure how it fits with this thread that doesn’t really reference established churches at all.

Larry didn’t even actually say what he personally believed about homosexuality from a Bible standpoint; he merely cited his impression that Michael’s comments were negative and divisively circular and that Michael’s life ought not to be considered an appropriate model. Not less than two weeks ago, when I made an off-handed reference to Michael as the poster child of the ex-ex-gays, he seemed to agree that he should not be held up as a model or standard.

Like Michael, I am ‘guessing’ that Larry probably believes homosexual behavior is sin but I must admit it’s only a guess. The irony is that Michael seems to be accusing Larry of presumption when he wrote:

Larry. Tell me. How do I live my life? And how did you conclude that I don’t serve our Lord in a positive way?

And yet Michael seems to be presuming Larry’s Bible viewpoint (along with reinterpreting what Larry said: Larry did not say that Michael didn’t serve the Lord in a postive way; he said he wished he’d use his intellectual prowess more productively in the Lord’s service rather than majoring on the negativity and circular talk.) It’s possible that Larry was only commenting on the misuse of this one particular gift and encouraging Michael to focus and accentuate the postiive.

When is it right and acceptable to presume? Is it a privilege granted only to a few?

I wish he (Michael) would use his intellectual prowess in a positive service of our LORD rather than these divisive circular arguments.

I think it is divisive and not a positive service to our Lord to hold that the homosexual issue is “central” to Christian faith — when it is not. This divides us into two groups:

(1) Real, bible-believing, Lord-serving Christians (the one’s who believe homosexuality is somehow central to Christian faith) on one side and

(2) Those who don’t believe it is central — and who therefore aren’t really Christian, don’t really believe the Bible and aren’t really serving HIm.

I do want to serve Him — and I do what little I can in my church, my family and my community. I know I could and should do more.

However, it is obviously drives his very negative tone throughout this blog. I which he would use his intellectual prowess in a positive service of our LORD rather then these divisive circular arguments.

Hi Larry,

It has been my observation and personal interaction with Michael that he has been very thoughtful, very intelligent, very introspective, and very willing to understand what others have to say about any aspect of this subject. There are others who post here who are not. Please go to the topic “Thoughts of the status of reorientation wars” and read some of his posts and I think you will see the kind of man he is.

Larry. Tell me. How do I live my life? And how did you conclude that I don’t serve our Lord in a positive way?

Ann ~ Aug 11, 2009 at 7:49 pm

Brian,

Thanks for sharing your experience with the process, however, it should not be held up as the example for all. Exodus, Narth, Wayne Besen, or the HRC can only have a certain amount of influence on an individual. When it all comes out in the wash, it is a daily decision we make to live the kind of life we value.

Wow this is a pearl of genuine insight.

I would add that the negative personal experieces of Mr Bussee and the way he chooses to live with his life choices should also not be espoused an example let alone as appropriate for a Christian. However, it is obviously drives his very negative tone throughout this blog. I which he would use his intellectual prowess in a positive service of our LORD rather then these divisive circular arguments.

The ex-gay-movement comes everytime with psychical health depression, STD, substance abuse in lifetime for homosexuals.

This study comes with psychical health in the last 90 days before Tx, when i read correct a review of the book.

Why are you suggesting a back and forth argument with Bussee when I only posted ONCE prior to his post addressed to me but possibly not to me???

As I stated, your comment about the impact of peer support and ‘the hammering of the truth’ (for lack of a better phrase) was what caused me to consider that this was a good a time as any to cite the possible impact of naysaying and the constant questioning.

Michael’s comments to me missed this, my main point, and instead introduced an unsubstantiated allegation on his part that he kind of addressed to me but kind of didn’t. I didn’t appreciate that. I still don’t. I enumerated my reasons but somehow you’ve rendered them invalid or incomprehensible.

His last paragraph is one I could have written and may in fact be a product of lengthy discussion he and I have had in the recent past. So telling it to me–when he knows I already know it–is confusing. Makes me wonder if he’s really talking to me or he’s pontificating for the greater blog but using me as his launching point. Even this wouldn’t be that offensive if he actually acknowledged the point I endeavored to make.

Since what I actually said isn’t what either you or Michael is talking to me about, please understand if I choose not to further respond to your non-responsive comments.

I honestly cannot judge how a person sees themselves – it would be arrogant for me to think I can. I have known individuals who are anorexic and still consider themselves overweight. I have know people who say they are happily married and cheat on their spouse. I know people who do not have vaginas and are happily married. I know people who never thought they would have children and now they do. I know people who were same gender attracted and now are attracted to their opposite gendered spouse. I just don’t know how to measure a person’s life to answer your question succinctly. The people I know who have separated from the life they once identified with usually do not refer to it anymore. I have only known several people who fit the question you pose – they say they no longer are attracted to the same gender. I also know people who say they are tempted but will not yield to the temptations because in the long run, it does not add value to their life, rather it takes away from what they really value. I also know individuals who value their same gender partners/spounses and the life they have together. From what I read about you going through the process, I gather that at one time you did not value homosexuality and wanted to change to heterosexuality. I am not sure if that is a realistic goal for most – we cannot pretend something about ourselves did not exist. Like I said, we have to decide what we value in our lives and then live a life that accomodates those values. Sometimes it means just separating ourselves from that which we do not value and see what serendipitous journey our life will take from there. Most of us need support and encouragement so I am grateful for groups that facilitate that.