Yes, I believe the feelings of passion are the same. I cannot say whether the emotional attachments are the same or the sexual satisfaction is the same but I am quite certain the passion we feel about anyone or anything, that is the object of our desire, is the same. Sometimes it is inexplicable. An ex-boyfriend comes to mind 🙂

I know it must seem odd to straight people to think of a male who never had any real sexual interest in the opposite sex. I sometimes wonder what it’s like to be heterosexual or even bisexual.

I just tell myself, “It must be like what I feel — only towards the opposite sex.” Is it? It’s one of the reasons I never liked the phrase “sexual preference” to describe gayness. It wasn’t like I enjoyed one more than the other. I only enjoyed one.

Michael,

Did this include kissing?

Michael–This question may be way over the top. No need to answer if you deem it to be. Over coffee this morning, I wondered whether your oral proclivities ever led you to consider oral sexual behaviors with a woman, do you recall any responses to this? My hunch is that by the time girls had ‘things that stuck out’ you had already found your niche.

Not over the top. You can ask me anything, Eddy. And I haven’t had my coffe yet. No, I never considered oral behaviors with females. There was nothing on a woman or a girl that I wanted to explore in that way — whether it “stuck out” or not. I think I may have the same gag response you do…

Carole asked you:

Would it have mattered to you or other little boys if they had had a brother of about the same age, someone to whom you could have compared yourself?

I had one brother, two years older. We shared a room, so I saw him every day. (I also saw my Dad, uncles and counsins and other “family groups” in the showers at camp or at public swimming pool changing rooms.) Lots of opportunities to compare.

In our early teens, my brother, his best friend, Russ, and Russ’s younger borther, Tim (who was my age) would sometimes play strip poker or go skinny dipping. I never felt inadeqaute. I realized it was a process. By observation and deduction i figured that I would “catch up” as I continued through puberty. As adults, we are pretty much the same, although he doesn’t put bottle caps in his mouth.

Eddy, would it have mattered to you or other little boys if they had had a brother of about the same age, someone to whom you could have compared yourself?

No, I don’t think so. I have six brothers…five of us are close together in age. Prior to puberty, we did see each other ‘in the altogether’ but I actually have no memories of seeing any of my brothers after the ‘transformation’. (LOL. This might be a good thing. In a somewhat bizarre TMI type of conversation several weeks ago, I learned from a football buddy of one of my brothers–a guy I once thought was the cat’s meow–that my brother was rather large in that department. This was somewhat ironic since I had always presumed this guy–due to his ultra macho attitude–likely ‘had the goods’.)

(Another intriguing part of the TMI conversation was how freely the guy divulged this info. No embarrassment…no ‘they’ll think I’m gay for saying this’…just a matter of fact revelation to several of us over a beer.)

My only somewhat distinct memory is catching a glimpse of my dad once and ‘realizing’ that mine could never turn out like that. I think that if dad had realized I had seen him, it might have prompted a facts of life talk. I did see my brothers in their underwear a lot. (7 boys split between two bedrooms) Actually, I wonder at times if my hyper-morality and sense of privacy that I alluded to on the other thread came into play here. It really is odd, under the circumstances, that I didn’t see more. I wonder also if my sense of being different–my doubts re my sexuality–caused me to avoid looking–for fear of getting caught and it being interpreted as gay.

Michael–

This question may be way over the top. No need to answer if you deem it to be. Over coffee this morning, I wondered whether your oral proclivities ever led you to consider oral sexual behaviors with a woman, do you recall any responses to this? My hunch is that by the time girls had ‘things that stuck out’ you had already found your niche.(LOL. I’ve got this very weird image going on of women noticing your talents with a bottle cap and wondering just how talented you are.)

For the record, although I can envision some forms of heterosexuality with me as a participant, there is that one thing that still incites a gag response. I find the level of my discomfort ‘telling’ although I’m not sure what it tells.

I used to volunteer to read at the staff nursery school at my high school. One of the classes had 4 children in it, 2 girls and 2 boys, who had clearly divided themselves into 2 couples. They identified themselves as girlfriend/boyfriend pairs, and would often talk about how they were going to get married someday. Occasionally as I read to them they would begin “kissing.” Which for them consisted of closing their mouths and then rubbing their mouths together via a vigorous head shaking motion, as if they were shaking their heads to say “no.” Obviously they were doing this not out of sexual or romantic interest/understanding but because they saw adults doing it and wanted to copy it, however inexpertly.

There are also the children who are fascinated by the concept of marriage, but have no understanding of what that entails. When I was 2 or 3 I informed my mother that I was going to marry my younger brother, and that we were going to change our names to my parent’s names (this was in response to my confusion over the fact that women changed their names upon marriage). Stories of very young children stating that they will marry their opposite sex parent when they grow up are common as well, I believe.

When I was young, as in pre-pubescent, I remember being quite clear on the fact that someday I would be marrying a boy. I also remember being quite interested in chasing boys around the playground in kindergarten and 1st grade (one of whom I kissed after a whole posse of us girls trapped him against a fence). However, I didn’t experience any of this as at all sexual, especially not in any way that would compute as sexual to a sexually mature person. I don’t think I ever found boy particularly attractive either. I definitely have memories of finding two of the troublemaking boys in preschool class actively annoying. I think that much of my interest in chasing boys developed because the other students made a big deal about it when I did (I should add that I was a socially awkward child). I never had anything that I would identify as a crush on anyone before I hit puberty.

My first experiences with sexual pleasure/arousal came between 2nd and 5th grade, as one of my female friends invented a game that involved what I can now identify as bondage techniques, some of which resulted in clitoral stimulation, mainly carried out via things like tape and rope found in her house (which her father was slowly adding onto). I have no idea where she developed these ideas from, but I’m sure that she came up with them, not me.

I started puberty extremely early (early physical changes when I was 8, menarche when I was 10). My first crush was on a boy in my 4th grade class, who was in the popular clique. I used to daydream about situations in which we were both trapped together in a room, and therefore forced to sleep together (meaning literally sleep next to each other), hopefully also involving me getting to feel his chest and arms, and perhaps some kissing. The “type” of guy whom I was attracted to at that point was definitely tall, blonde, blue eyed, and strong but not overly muscular. I mention this because, as I’ve grown my “type” has adjusted, so much that I would say that I don’t have anything particular that I am drawn to. I find that a strong intellect can increase the level of attractiveness I perceive a man to have. I’ve also had crushes on men who ranged from the same age as to as many (upwards of 20) years older than me.

The other interesting thing that has been happening, perhaps between when I was 18 to the present (21) is that I have found myself sexually attracted to women in addition to men. I have definitely had a crush on a female professor, including being fascinated with her breasts and imagining a sexual relationship with her.

Has been killer hot here! Finally cool enough to cook some chicken, water the plants and do some housework. Then a little Paula Dean or Iron Chef, Bible study (re-reading Thessalonians) and Mass in the morning. Finding out that Catholics really love the Lord… 🙂

The peace of the Lord be with you…Stay cool…

To Eddy: I also loved your description: “It’s like comparing a short, stubby pencil to one of those monster pens that have 10 different color inks inside…or maybe like comparing a Volkswagen to an SUV.”

Never thought of mine in any of these ways — Stubby?. Monster? Can you imagine “10 different color inks inside”? Freak me out, dude! LOL 🙂

To Carole:

Was the name-calling ever the result of their knowing that you liked looking at boys or touching them, etc.?

No. I kept that VERY secret. It seemed more to do with the fact that I preferred hopscotch over kick-ball. I was also precoscious intellectually. Reading at 12th grade level in 5th grade, etc. This really seemed to bug the less cerebral boys.

Your explanation about your aversion to the term “ex-gay”–that you never had what could be termed a “gay identity” to begin with makes a lot of sense.

In another post you said, about those childhood behaviors and attractions,

I want to say that these are pleasant memories. I did not become anxious about these things until about age 10, when I started gatting called “homo” or “sissy”. Then, I figured out that the world thought something was really wrong with me.

Was the name-calling ever the result of their knowing that you liked looking at boys or touching them, etc.?