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	<title>
	Comments on: NARTH&#8217;s new journal is not a new study	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/07/07/narths-new-journal-is-not-a-new-study/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/07/07/narths-new-journal-is-not-a-new-study/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:28:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/07/07/narths-new-journal-is-not-a-new-study/#comment-30654</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4445#comment-30654</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Whew!  That was a really long thread.  Are we done now?  :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whew!  That was a really long thread.  Are we done now?  🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/07/07/narths-new-journal-is-not-a-new-study/#comment-30653</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4445#comment-30653</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Evan - Thanks for posting the abstract to that study involving risk and neuroticism. You might remember that when Siegelman controlled for neuroticism he found that the father deficit theory was not true of homosexuals. However, neuroticism may be somewhat higher in homosexuals for reasons of genetics and not environment. Thus, such variables probably influence the parent-child relationship significantly.



On the point of risk for various disorders. I think this is a highly significant study. And one that does not eliminate the role of social environment. However, in asking which comes first, environment or genetic vulnerability, I would say this study provides preliminary but solid evidence that the vulnerability is prior to experience. 



An interesting counter point to the &quot;new&quot; NARTH paper which finds all of the mischief in men behaving badly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan &#8211; Thanks for posting the abstract to that study involving risk and neuroticism. You might remember that when Siegelman controlled for neuroticism he found that the father deficit theory was not true of homosexuals. However, neuroticism may be somewhat higher in homosexuals for reasons of genetics and not environment. Thus, such variables probably influence the parent-child relationship significantly.</p>
<p>On the point of risk for various disorders. I think this is a highly significant study. And one that does not eliminate the role of social environment. However, in asking which comes first, environment or genetic vulnerability, I would say this study provides preliminary but solid evidence that the vulnerability is prior to experience. </p>
<p>An interesting counter point to the &#8220;new&#8221; NARTH paper which finds all of the mischief in men behaving badly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lynn David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/07/07/narths-new-journal-is-not-a-new-study/#comment-30652</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4445#comment-30652</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Evan quoted.....&lt;/strong&gt;

Secondly, we used our genetically informative sample to assess the viability of explanations invoking a common cause of both nonheterosexuality and psychiatric vulnerability. We found significant genetic correlation between sexual orientation and both Neuroticism and Psychoticism, but no corresponding environmental correlations, suggesting that if there is a common cause of both nonheterosexuality and psychiatric vulnerability it is likely to have a genetic basis rather than an environmental basis.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Gee.... so you want to say &#039;nonheterosexuality&#039; is innate and likely genetic?  And along with that so to any neurosis or psychosis?   So what then does the oppression I&#039;ve felt over the years have done to me?    Or.... is fleeing to people like NARTH to get rid of my &#039;nonheterosexuality&#039; then a part of their statistical review?   I mean if you&#039;re told your mentally ill, that is have an SSA of which you should rid yourself, then your by definition mentally ill and become a part of their statistics.   



Tell you what, normalize &#039;nonheterosexuality&#039; in the society and then see what those statistics come out to be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><strong>Evan quoted&#8230;..</strong></p>
<p>Secondly, we used our genetically informative sample to assess the viability of explanations invoking a common cause of both nonheterosexuality and psychiatric vulnerability. We found significant genetic correlation between sexual orientation and both Neuroticism and Psychoticism, but no corresponding environmental correlations, suggesting that if there is a common cause of both nonheterosexuality and psychiatric vulnerability it is likely to have a genetic basis rather than an environmental basis.</p></blockquote>
<p>Gee&#8230;. so you want to say &#8216;nonheterosexuality&#8217; is innate and likely genetic?  And along with that so to any neurosis or psychosis?   So what then does the oppression I&#8217;ve felt over the years have done to me?    Or&#8230;. is fleeing to people like NARTH to get rid of my &#8216;nonheterosexuality&#8217; then a part of their statistical review?   I mean if you&#8217;re told your mentally ill, that is have an SSA of which you should rid yourself, then your by definition mentally ill and become a part of their statistics.   </p>
<p>Tell you what, normalize &#8216;nonheterosexuality&#8217; in the society and then see what those statistics come out to be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/07/07/narths-new-journal-is-not-a-new-study/#comment-30651</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 06:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4445#comment-30651</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On second thought, it does seem reasonable that there might be neurological differences, shared with women, that make gays more vulnerable to (anti-gay) stress.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On second thought, it does seem reasonable that there might be neurological differences, shared with women, that make gays more vulnerable to (anti-gay) stress.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/07/07/narths-new-journal-is-not-a-new-study/#comment-30650</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4445#comment-30650</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I think what scientists, including “hard scientists” might be wondering is if there is a biological/neurological component to SSA are there correlations to other brain functions? &lt;/blockquote&gt;



It is a reasonable question.  I just think we have to be very careful to keep in mind that theories are just that -- theories, and that correlation does not equal causation.  It&#039;s a basic tenet of good research.  



For some reason, (I suspect anti-gay bias that there must be something &quot;wrong&quot;, inferior or disordererd&quot; with being gay) researchers are prone to say -- &quot;aha!  These two things seem to be related, therefore one must cause the other&quot;.



NARTH seems to be particularly prone to this sort of logical fallacy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think what scientists, including “hard scientists” might be wondering is if there is a biological/neurological component to SSA are there correlations to other brain functions? </p></blockquote>
<p>It is a reasonable question.  I just think we have to be very careful to keep in mind that theories are just that &#8212; theories, and that correlation does not equal causation.  It&#8217;s a basic tenet of good research.  </p>
<p>For some reason, (I suspect anti-gay bias that there must be something &#8220;wrong&#8221;, inferior or disordererd&#8221; with being gay) researchers are prone to say &#8212; &#8220;aha!  These two things seem to be related, therefore one must cause the other&#8221;.</p>
<p>NARTH seems to be particularly prone to this sort of logical fallacy.</p>
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