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	Comments on: Connecticut church tries to cast out homosexuality	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/24/connecticut-church-tries-to-cast-out-homosexuality/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Candace		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/24/connecticut-church-tries-to-cast-out-homosexuality/#comment-29565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Candace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4354#comment-29565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That might be an explanation, Karen, except that it happened in more than one church.  I am a bisexual woman who just looks masculine.... one time I had on a frilly white blouse with embroidery and pearls, hair almost to my waist, green velour pants and heels on.... makeup and long fingernails.... and one of the older women in the church told me I looked &quot;mannish and needed deliverance from demons.&quot;  I was on local TBN and afterwards was told I looked like a linebacker in a dress.  I was pointed out in  more than one evangelistic meeting and told &quot;God will deliver YOU from homosexuality today!!!!&quot;  which embarrassed me almost to death because at the time I didn&#039;t have a gay thought in my head.  It was after one of those public &quot;discernments&quot; that everybody I knew in the church considered me fair game for their exorcisms.   Offhand, I can think of 3 different churches and 3 different evangelists who jumped on the &quot;deliver the homosexual&quot; band wagon.  So if my experiences were just due to attending  a spiritually abusive church, I must have hit the motherlode. 



Still, I hung on until I heard a hundred times that even if I never did a single gay thing in my life, I wasn&#039;t a christian and would burn in hell forever when I died.  That&#039;s when I said, &quot;If I&#039;m going to suffer through this emotional  hell and still go to hell anyway, why bother????&quot;



I was saved, baptized, spoke in tongues, had a healing and evangelism ministry and was as biblically &quot;saved&quot; as anybody could be.... but that didn&#039;t matter.  They &quot;discerned&quot; I was gay and that was all the proof they needed of demons.



You know what&#039;s messed up?  At the age of 50 I I had been single again for 8 years and finally met and began a relationship with a woman (my wonderful christian husband had deserted me and his 3 children years before to shack up with his brother&#039;s widow and my partner&#039;s wonderful christian husband is in prison for life because she caught him molesting a little boy) -- and EVERY christian &quot;friend&quot; I had turned their back and has never spoken to me again in 7 years.



In that circle of people, I know adulterers, incesters, murderers, drug and alcohol addicts, thieves, and sinners of all kinds.  I know who beats their wife and who molests their children.  I know who steals from their congregations.  I know who is having an affair with the associate pastor.  But NONE of them turn their backs on each other for anything except homosexuality.



That&#039;s fine, though.... like I said, I&#039;m so much happier and finally free of their poison tongues and evil imaginings.



Do I hate christianity?  Of course not.   Do I hate christians?  Of course not.  I feel absolutely nothing for them emotinoally..... but I can&#039;t gloss over what they did.



And ultimately, what they did was one of the biggest favors of my life.... they gave me a reason to leave their little corner of hell.



There&#039;s no excuse and no defense for their behavior, especially not the &quot;no true Scotsman&quot; defense that a real charismatic christian wouldn&#039;t act that way.  They would and they did, but they sure won&#039;t get the chance to do it again.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That might be an explanation, Karen, except that it happened in more than one church.  I am a bisexual woman who just looks masculine&#8230;. one time I had on a frilly white blouse with embroidery and pearls, hair almost to my waist, green velour pants and heels on&#8230;. makeup and long fingernails&#8230;. and one of the older women in the church told me I looked &#8220;mannish and needed deliverance from demons.&#8221;  I was on local TBN and afterwards was told I looked like a linebacker in a dress.  I was pointed out in  more than one evangelistic meeting and told &#8220;God will deliver YOU from homosexuality today!!!!&#8221;  which embarrassed me almost to death because at the time I didn&#8217;t have a gay thought in my head.  It was after one of those public &#8220;discernments&#8221; that everybody I knew in the church considered me fair game for their exorcisms.   Offhand, I can think of 3 different churches and 3 different evangelists who jumped on the &#8220;deliver the homosexual&#8221; band wagon.  So if my experiences were just due to attending  a spiritually abusive church, I must have hit the motherlode. </p>
<p>Still, I hung on until I heard a hundred times that even if I never did a single gay thing in my life, I wasn&#8217;t a christian and would burn in hell forever when I died.  That&#8217;s when I said, &#8220;If I&#8217;m going to suffer through this emotional  hell and still go to hell anyway, why bother????&#8221;</p>
<p>I was saved, baptized, spoke in tongues, had a healing and evangelism ministry and was as biblically &#8220;saved&#8221; as anybody could be&#8230;. but that didn&#8217;t matter.  They &#8220;discerned&#8221; I was gay and that was all the proof they needed of demons.</p>
<p>You know what&#8217;s messed up?  At the age of 50 I I had been single again for 8 years and finally met and began a relationship with a woman (my wonderful christian husband had deserted me and his 3 children years before to shack up with his brother&#8217;s widow and my partner&#8217;s wonderful christian husband is in prison for life because she caught him molesting a little boy) &#8212; and EVERY christian &#8220;friend&#8221; I had turned their back and has never spoken to me again in 7 years.</p>
<p>In that circle of people, I know adulterers, incesters, murderers, drug and alcohol addicts, thieves, and sinners of all kinds.  I know who beats their wife and who molests their children.  I know who steals from their congregations.  I know who is having an affair with the associate pastor.  But NONE of them turn their backs on each other for anything except homosexuality.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fine, though&#8230;. like I said, I&#8217;m so much happier and finally free of their poison tongues and evil imaginings.</p>
<p>Do I hate christianity?  Of course not.   Do I hate christians?  Of course not.  I feel absolutely nothing for them emotinoally&#8230;.. but I can&#8217;t gloss over what they did.</p>
<p>And ultimately, what they did was one of the biggest favors of my life&#8230;. they gave me a reason to leave their little corner of hell.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no excuse and no defense for their behavior, especially not the &#8220;no true Scotsman&#8221; defense that a real charismatic christian wouldn&#8217;t act that way.  They would and they did, but they sure won&#8217;t get the chance to do it again.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karen K		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/24/connecticut-church-tries-to-cast-out-homosexuality/#comment-29564</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4354#comment-29564</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think its important to distinguish between charismatic churches and simply churches within the charismatic tradition that might be spiritually abusive. Candace, your experience sounds horrific. I am so sorry that happened to you. It sounds like a very abusive, cult-like experience.



I have had experiences with charismatic churches that are not at all spiritually abusive and would be just as horrified by some of the descriptions of deliverance listed here. So, this is not a charismatic/pentecostal thing. Its beyond that. Charismatic churches may be more inclined toward these things because of certain beliefs, in the came way that Baptist and Calvinists can also become very spiritually abusive in their own ways with legalism. But that is not because it is Baptist.  Or because a church is charismatic. Rather, there are churches of all stripes that are led by fallible human beings that sometimes make grave mistakes.



The whole question of demonic activity is an interesting one, and unfortunately these overly-dramatic exorcism really take away from a rational discussion of what Scripture speaks of in terms of destructive spiritual powers and how our relationship with Christ calls us to respond to those very real powers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its important to distinguish between charismatic churches and simply churches within the charismatic tradition that might be spiritually abusive. Candace, your experience sounds horrific. I am so sorry that happened to you. It sounds like a very abusive, cult-like experience.</p>
<p>I have had experiences with charismatic churches that are not at all spiritually abusive and would be just as horrified by some of the descriptions of deliverance listed here. So, this is not a charismatic/pentecostal thing. Its beyond that. Charismatic churches may be more inclined toward these things because of certain beliefs, in the came way that Baptist and Calvinists can also become very spiritually abusive in their own ways with legalism. But that is not because it is Baptist.  Or because a church is charismatic. Rather, there are churches of all stripes that are led by fallible human beings that sometimes make grave mistakes.</p>
<p>The whole question of demonic activity is an interesting one, and unfortunately these overly-dramatic exorcism really take away from a rational discussion of what Scripture speaks of in terms of destructive spiritual powers and how our relationship with Christ calls us to respond to those very real powers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/24/connecticut-church-tries-to-cast-out-homosexuality/#comment-29563</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4354#comment-29563</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Michael -- see my latest post. I suspect many have walked away from the church due to such attitudes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael &#8212; see my latest post. I suspect many have walked away from the church due to such attitudes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/24/connecticut-church-tries-to-cast-out-homosexuality/#comment-29562</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4354#comment-29562</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is terribly sad:  &lt;blockquote&gt;You will never be one of them. And if you DARE to ever say, “I’m gay,” you are no longer a christian and doomed to burn in hell forever because you didn’t fight against your demons hard enough. You either become straight or grovel and repent forever. &lt;/blockquote&gt;



And this is even sadder: &lt;blockquote&gt;The bottom line is that,,,you are still not a Christian. Just pretending to be straight doesn’t help…. you must completely change-- and that’s not possible.  That’s why 9 years ago I walked out of the church and have never looked back&lt;/blockquote&gt;



How many gays have given up and turned away from the love of God because of the abuse of &quot;Christians&quot;.  How many?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is terribly sad:  </p>
<blockquote><p>You will never be one of them. And if you DARE to ever say, “I’m gay,” you are no longer a christian and doomed to burn in hell forever because you didn’t fight against your demons hard enough. You either become straight or grovel and repent forever. </p></blockquote>
<p>And this is even sadder: </p>
<blockquote><p>The bottom line is that,,,you are still not a Christian. Just pretending to be straight doesn’t help…. you must completely change&#8211; and that’s not possible.  That’s why 9 years ago I walked out of the church and have never looked back</p></blockquote>
<p>How many gays have given up and turned away from the love of God because of the abuse of &#8220;Christians&#8221;.  How many?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Candace		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/24/connecticut-church-tries-to-cast-out-homosexuality/#comment-29561</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Candace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=4354#comment-29561</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I attended charismatic churches for nearly 20 years and underwent much worse than that in an effort to &quot;cast out&quot; demons of homosexuality.  I was choked, thrown against walls, thrown on the floor, held down, had gallons of oil poured over my head, had communion wafers forced into my mouth while a crowd of people milled around, screaming &quot;the blood of Jesus!&quot; at the top of their voices.  I know &quot;deliverance&quot; from experience.  &lt;strong&gt;Unless you have been through the experience, you don&#039;t understand that you either go along with the craziness or it gets worse and worse for you.&lt;/strong&gt;  Denying you have a problem is just your demons speaking.  Not wanting to be treated this way is a demon speaking.  Begging some ignorant pastor to stop choking you is a demon speaking.  &lt;strong&gt;  Either go along with them or be ostracized.&lt;/strong&gt;  





And if you never have a gay experience or a gay fantasy or a gay action, they will still &quot;discern&quot; gay spirits because of the way you look, or talk, or walk.  If you grovel and cry at the altar every week, &quot;confessing&quot; your filthiness and sinfulness, your presence will be tolerated but you can never hold a leadership position, be near a child, or be part of anything in the church.  Men will forbid their wives to talk to you.  You will never be one of them.  And if you DARE to ever say, &quot;I&#039;m gay,&quot; you are no longer a christian and doomed to burn in hell forever because you didn&#039;t fight against your demons hard enough.  You either become straight or grovel and repent forever.  



The bottom line is that if you do everything these &quot;christians&quot; say and go through a dozen humiliating, criminal assaults called &quot;deliverance,&quot; you are still not a chirstian.  Just pretending to be straight doesn&#039;t help.... you must &lt;em&gt;completely change-&lt;/em&gt;- and that&#039;s not possible.



That&#039;s why 9 years ago I walked out of the church and have never looked back.  All the &quot;demon&quot; garbage they taught me has vanished like fog on a sunny morning.   I feel like I&#039;ve been let out of a filthy, torturous, evil prison, into sunshine and hope and rationality.  I wouldn&#039;t go back to that kind of psychological and emotional and physical and spiritual abuse for any amount of money.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended charismatic churches for nearly 20 years and underwent much worse than that in an effort to &#8220;cast out&#8221; demons of homosexuality.  I was choked, thrown against walls, thrown on the floor, held down, had gallons of oil poured over my head, had communion wafers forced into my mouth while a crowd of people milled around, screaming &#8220;the blood of Jesus!&#8221; at the top of their voices.  I know &#8220;deliverance&#8221; from experience.  <strong>Unless you have been through the experience, you don&#8217;t understand that you either go along with the craziness or it gets worse and worse for you.</strong>  Denying you have a problem is just your demons speaking.  Not wanting to be treated this way is a demon speaking.  Begging some ignorant pastor to stop choking you is a demon speaking.  <strong>  Either go along with them or be ostracized.</strong>  </p>
<p>And if you never have a gay experience or a gay fantasy or a gay action, they will still &#8220;discern&#8221; gay spirits because of the way you look, or talk, or walk.  If you grovel and cry at the altar every week, &#8220;confessing&#8221; your filthiness and sinfulness, your presence will be tolerated but you can never hold a leadership position, be near a child, or be part of anything in the church.  Men will forbid their wives to talk to you.  You will never be one of them.  And if you DARE to ever say, &#8220;I&#8217;m gay,&#8221; you are no longer a christian and doomed to burn in hell forever because you didn&#8217;t fight against your demons hard enough.  You either become straight or grovel and repent forever.  </p>
<p>The bottom line is that if you do everything these &#8220;christians&#8221; say and go through a dozen humiliating, criminal assaults called &#8220;deliverance,&#8221; you are still not a chirstian.  Just pretending to be straight doesn&#8217;t help&#8230;. you must <em>completely change-</em>&#8211; and that&#8217;s not possible.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why 9 years ago I walked out of the church and have never looked back.  All the &#8220;demon&#8221; garbage they taught me has vanished like fog on a sunny morning.   I feel like I&#8217;ve been let out of a filthy, torturous, evil prison, into sunshine and hope and rationality.  I wouldn&#8217;t go back to that kind of psychological and emotional and physical and spiritual abuse for any amount of money.</p>
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