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	Comments on: Multiple pathways to sexual orientation, Part 1	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Lynn David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27143</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27143</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the NARTH and Exodus viewpoint is that their are biological predispositions which encourage or trigger homosexual orientations then their rhetoric and their backers - FotF, AFA, FRC, TWC, etc... - are simply lying.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the NARTH and Exodus viewpoint is that their are biological predispositions which encourage or trigger homosexual orientations then their rhetoric and their backers &#8211; FotF, AFA, FRC, TWC, etc&#8230; &#8211; are simply lying.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lynn David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27142</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27142</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Warren... &lt;/strong&gt;That is possible although from what I know of the players that might be more likely of Cohen than Nicolosi. I say that because Cohen likes to beat pillows and scream which is associated with recovered memory “therapy.”&lt;/blockquote&gt; Yeah, it would more likely be that Nicolosi would make his reparative drive mountain out of ant and mole hills of minor everyday trifles of one&#039;s early life experiences.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><strong>Warren&#8230; </strong>That is possible although from what I know of the players that might be more likely of Cohen than Nicolosi. I say that because Cohen likes to beat pillows and scream which is associated with recovered memory “therapy.”</p></blockquote>
<p> Yeah, it would more likely be that Nicolosi would make his reparative drive mountain out of ant and mole hills of minor everyday trifles of one&#8217;s early life experiences.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27141</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27141</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Joe is co-founder, past president  and the &quot;face&quot; of NARTH...
It is time for the other egos at NARTH to assert themselves to form an Identity larger than Joe&#039;s.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe is co-founder, past president  and the &#8220;face&#8221; of NARTH&#8230;<br />
It is time for the other egos at NARTH to assert themselves to form an Identity larger than Joe&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Debbie Thurman		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27140</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debbie Thurman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27140</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Joe is a co-founder of NARTH, so they&#039;d better get their stuff together over there.
&lt;blockquote&gt;This is common for psychodynamic, interpersonal therapies and religion generally…it is, for these world views, about what I can change and what I have control over…&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Or what God has control over?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe is a co-founder of NARTH, so they&#8217;d better get their stuff together over there.</p>
<blockquote><p>This is common for psychodynamic, interpersonal therapies and religion generally…it is, for these world views, about what I can change and what I have control over…</p></blockquote>
<p>Or what God has control over?</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27139</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27139</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You may view Joe as NARTH...but I have not and do not.
Joe may view Joe as NARTH...but I have not and do not.
Byrd&#039;s public statement suggests he does not view Joe as NARTH.
It is an understandable error in communication when your intervention is environmental to overemphasize environmental solutions (reparative therapy)....
NARTH and others need to emphasize that their solution is only partially successful because it deals with only part of the cause, for part of the people.
Emphasizing biology or prenatal development is under explored by NARTH.
This is common for psychodynamic, interpersonal therapies and religion generally...it is, for these world views, about what I can change and what I have control over...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may view Joe as NARTH&#8230;but I have not and do not.<br />
Joe may view Joe as NARTH&#8230;but I have not and do not.<br />
Byrd&#8217;s public statement suggests he does not view Joe as NARTH.<br />
It is an understandable error in communication when your intervention is environmental to overemphasize environmental solutions (reparative therapy)&#8230;.<br />
NARTH and others need to emphasize that their solution is only partially successful because it deals with only part of the cause, for part of the people.<br />
Emphasizing biology or prenatal development is under explored by NARTH.<br />
This is common for psychodynamic, interpersonal therapies and religion generally&#8230;it is, for these world views, about what I can change and what I have control over&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Debbie Thurman		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debbie Thurman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I would like to see Joe’s statements about the temperamental precursor being biological. Such a precursor is not necessary nor is it sufficient in his view. The potent component that is necessary and sufficient is a trauma with the same-sex parent.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;ve never seen him addressing this anywhere, but I do find this statement of Joe&#039;s interesting:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Philosophically, I am an essentialist -- not a social constructionist: I believe that gender identity and sexual orientation are grounded in biological reality. The body tells us who we are, and we cannot &quot;construct&quot; -- assemble or disassemble -- a different reality in which gender and sexual identity are out of synchrony with biology.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That appears in his essay, &quot;Why I Am Not a Neutral Therapist&quot; at the NARTH web site (http://narth.com/docs/notneutral.html). I&#039;ve not seen essentialism used quite that way before. He turns the tables. If you read his entire essay for the context, it makes sense. He believes everyone is born heterosexual.
A Christian would say that we are born into a fallen world, tainted with original sin. That leaves open all possibilities for the origins of same-sex attraction. But it also essentially takes origin out of the picture as it becomes immaterial for those seeking wholeness through knowing God. Does it matter why a man is born blind or deaf or deformed? His infirmity does not define him or keep him from knowing God. In fact, it may be the very thing that draws him toward God. Regardless of whether or not SSA has biological precursors, all those who don&#039;t want it feel the same pain. If it were part of their design, why would that be?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I would like to see Joe’s statements about the temperamental precursor being biological. Such a precursor is not necessary nor is it sufficient in his view. The potent component that is necessary and sufficient is a trauma with the same-sex parent.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve never seen him addressing this anywhere, but I do find this statement of Joe&#8217;s interesting:</p>
<blockquote><p>Philosophically, I am an essentialist &#8212; not a social constructionist: I believe that gender identity and sexual orientation are grounded in biological reality. The body tells us who we are, and we cannot &#8220;construct&#8221; &#8212; assemble or disassemble &#8212; a different reality in which gender and sexual identity are out of synchrony with biology.</p></blockquote>
<p>That appears in his essay, &#8220;Why I Am Not a Neutral Therapist&#8221; at the NARTH web site (<a href="http://narth.com/docs/notneutral.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://narth.com/docs/notneutral.html</a>). I&#8217;ve not seen essentialism used quite that way before. He turns the tables. If you read his entire essay for the context, it makes sense. He believes everyone is born heterosexual.<br />
A Christian would say that we are born into a fallen world, tainted with original sin. That leaves open all possibilities for the origins of same-sex attraction. But it also essentially takes origin out of the picture as it becomes immaterial for those seeking wholeness through knowing God. Does it matter why a man is born blind or deaf or deformed? His infirmity does not define him or keep him from knowing God. In fact, it may be the very thing that draws him toward God. Regardless of whether or not SSA has biological precursors, all those who don&#8217;t want it feel the same pain. If it were part of their design, why would that be?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pathia		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27137</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pathia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27137</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Are all of these studies about adults?  I&#039;m wondering about stats of kids that were in therapy and now are adults.
To be honest the main reason I&#039;m in therapy now, is because I was in therapy as a child.  The damage was so great I have to &#039;undo&#039; the previous attempts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are all of these studies about adults?  I&#8217;m wondering about stats of kids that were in therapy and now are adults.<br />
To be honest the main reason I&#8217;m in therapy now, is because I was in therapy as a child.  The damage was so great I have to &#8216;undo&#8217; the previous attempts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27136</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27136</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27134&quot;&gt;David Blakeslee&lt;/a&gt;.

PS - I would like to see Joe&#039;s statements about the temperamental precursor being biological. Such a precursor is not necessary nor is it sufficient in his view. The potent component that is necessary and sufficient is a trauma with the same-sex parent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27134">David Blakeslee</a>.</p>
<p>PS &#8211; I would like to see Joe&#8217;s statements about the temperamental precursor being biological. Such a precursor is not necessary nor is it sufficient in his view. The potent component that is necessary and sufficient is a trauma with the same-sex parent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27135</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27135</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@David Blakeslee:
If one is to summarize, then one must come to Richard&#039;s conclusion. Of course there are some under the Exodus and NARTH umbrella who think and speak about multiple causes. However, when one examines the lion&#039;s share of materials and when one looks at public statements, it is hard to escape the conclusion that they say multicausal without knowing what they mean.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David Blakeslee:<br />
If one is to summarize, then one must come to Richard&#8217;s conclusion. Of course there are some under the Exodus and NARTH umbrella who think and speak about multiple causes. However, when one examines the lion&#8217;s share of materials and when one looks at public statements, it is hard to escape the conclusion that they say multicausal without knowing what they mean.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/multiple-pathways-to-sexual-orientation-part-1/#comment-27134</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3792#comment-27134</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Richard Cronin:
&quot;And theres a bunch of folk out there (exodus, narth etc) who think it’s all enviromental. &quot;
I think you make an error here that even Warren makes...which is to focus in a distorted way on the assertions of NARTH and Exodus.
Both hold a multifaceted view of the development of SSA...biology+early development (hormonal)+early object relations+peer interactions correlate with SSA.
With a focus on change in the intensity of feelings and bringing behavior under control, all they can focus on is environmental influences...because it is the only thing that we have some control of, the biology, temperment and hormonal influences have already occured.
It is not reasonable, as thoughtful people, to ignore the comprehensive statements of those who concern us when such comprehensive statements fit the existing data (Reparative Theory, for all its flaws as applied by Joe, includes a biological, tempermental precurser to SSA).
Straw men do not serve us.
Although they simplify the argument in  our favor and make us feel superior.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Richard Cronin:<br />
&#8220;And theres a bunch of folk out there (exodus, narth etc) who think it’s all enviromental. &#8221;<br />
I think you make an error here that even Warren makes&#8230;which is to focus in a distorted way on the assertions of NARTH and Exodus.<br />
Both hold a multifaceted view of the development of SSA&#8230;biology+early development (hormonal)+early object relations+peer interactions correlate with SSA.<br />
With a focus on change in the intensity of feelings and bringing behavior under control, all they can focus on is environmental influences&#8230;because it is the only thing that we have some control of, the biology, temperment and hormonal influences have already occured.<br />
It is not reasonable, as thoughtful people, to ignore the comprehensive statements of those who concern us when such comprehensive statements fit the existing data (Reparative Theory, for all its flaws as applied by Joe, includes a biological, tempermental precurser to SSA).<br />
Straw men do not serve us.<br />
Although they simplify the argument in  our favor and make us feel superior.</p>
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