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	Comments on: Can we infer the past from the present?	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/12/can-we-infer-the-past-from-the-present/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Evan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/12/can-we-infer-the-past-from-the-present/#comment-25922</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3173#comment-25922</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Michael Bussee,
Maybe that girl Rita beating you at a game left a mark on your emotional memory. :)
I don&#039;t remember playing anything with a girl when I was a boy, I don&#039;t know what games they were playing. I remember most of us boys were hanging out in a bunch and had little to do with girls unless a teacher paired us with them for some purpose. This is the fascinating part - finding out what made us see girls as completely strange and attractive. It must be sexual difference and some typical brain development stuff.
I don&#039;t think there are so many as there used to be who think attractions to one&#039;s gender are diseased. I think what makes someone attracted to the other gender is also involved in what makes someone else attracted to their own gender. Maybe that&#039;s why some talk about choice, because they assume based on their own experience that others are choosing their sexual identity. It&#039;s important to see why some people feel no degree of choice and learn something about sexual development while at it. It will help people on all sides learn and will force society to deal with its own prejudice and harmful lies. It will be like society going through therapy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Bussee,<br />
Maybe that girl Rita beating you at a game left a mark on your emotional memory. 🙂<br />
I don&#8217;t remember playing anything with a girl when I was a boy, I don&#8217;t know what games they were playing. I remember most of us boys were hanging out in a bunch and had little to do with girls unless a teacher paired us with them for some purpose. This is the fascinating part &#8211; finding out what made us see girls as completely strange and attractive. It must be sexual difference and some typical brain development stuff.<br />
I don&#8217;t think there are so many as there used to be who think attractions to one&#8217;s gender are diseased. I think what makes someone attracted to the other gender is also involved in what makes someone else attracted to their own gender. Maybe that&#8217;s why some talk about choice, because they assume based on their own experience that others are choosing their sexual identity. It&#8217;s important to see why some people feel no degree of choice and learn something about sexual development while at it. It will help people on all sides learn and will force society to deal with its own prejudice and harmful lies. It will be like society going through therapy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: carole		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/12/can-we-infer-the-past-from-the-present/#comment-25921</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[carole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3173#comment-25921</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Michael Bussee said,
&lt;blockquote&gt;This whole discussion of what causes gayness is offensive, because unlike heterosexuality, gayness is presented as some sort of brokeness or disease. It is assumed to be the result of trauma, developmental deficits, bad parenting, abuse, etc. It’s a illness model — and that reveals the underlying, unscientific (usually religious) prejudice.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
These words suggest to me either  a weak  understanding of or a disinterest in the hard sciences regarding certain topics,  which is perfectly fine, but which is not fine for others;  or a disinterest in human behavior, which again is fine, but not fine for others.
 In addition,  it appears you have positioned yourself atop a  moral high horse so tall you  may not have a clear view  of what&#039;s beneath and so  you  read an  evil intent into what you  &lt;em&gt;think &lt;/em&gt;you see. Is it  possible you have no interest in seeing at all and so  have concluded that  no one else should either? Perhaps not, but the  use of words  like &quot;offensive&quot; and &quot;prejudice&quot; are common rhetorical devices often meant to stifle discussion  rather than debating the points on their own merits.
If I&#039;ve caused offense, I am certainly not happy about it, but your words suggesting offense won&#039;t silence me.   If you are offended, you have the option of not  reading  what those who are likely to offend you say.  Or, you can engage in a discussion and agree to disagree. However, one ought not  expect that because something might be offensive, it won&#039;t be uttered. Of what use is such a forum as that?
Debates in other forums on other topics, the hot issues of our times--the stimulus or pork package (depending on how one views it),  immigration reform, border control, bank and homeowner bailouts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the genocide in Darfur, the West Bank settlements, etc. would also bring about comments that might offend, but saying &quot;that&#039;s offensive&quot; is not reason to stop debate.
This is, in part, a science blog; one of Warren&#039;s major topics is sexuality.  Comments about science research-- hypotheses, theories, etc. about sexuality-- are  appropriate and to be expected.
 We know, in a sense, the cause of heterosexuality--the evolutionary directive to reproduce, even if we haven&#039;t identified the mechanisms, the specific cells/neurons  that identify a target  mate for reproductive success.   Thus, scientists usually study the anomaly, not the norm.
So, since science hasn&#039;t identified the cause of homosexuality,  do you presume to tell scientists and those who read science research blogs that they ought not consider certain etiologies because they offend your sensibilities?
 You seem to be saying, &quot;Go ahead and study, but be sure you don&#039;t propose a hypothesis to test which I don&#039;t like; be sure you don&#039;t  come up with an outcome I don&#039;t like.&quot;
That&#039;s just not the way it works.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Bussee said,</p>
<blockquote><p>This whole discussion of what causes gayness is offensive, because unlike heterosexuality, gayness is presented as some sort of brokeness or disease. It is assumed to be the result of trauma, developmental deficits, bad parenting, abuse, etc. It’s a illness model — and that reveals the underlying, unscientific (usually religious) prejudice.</p></blockquote>
<p>These words suggest to me either  a weak  understanding of or a disinterest in the hard sciences regarding certain topics,  which is perfectly fine, but which is not fine for others;  or a disinterest in human behavior, which again is fine, but not fine for others.<br />
 In addition,  it appears you have positioned yourself atop a  moral high horse so tall you  may not have a clear view  of what&#8217;s beneath and so  you  read an  evil intent into what you  <em>think </em>you see. Is it  possible you have no interest in seeing at all and so  have concluded that  no one else should either? Perhaps not, but the  use of words  like &#8220;offensive&#8221; and &#8220;prejudice&#8221; are common rhetorical devices often meant to stifle discussion  rather than debating the points on their own merits.<br />
If I&#8217;ve caused offense, I am certainly not happy about it, but your words suggesting offense won&#8217;t silence me.   If you are offended, you have the option of not  reading  what those who are likely to offend you say.  Or, you can engage in a discussion and agree to disagree. However, one ought not  expect that because something might be offensive, it won&#8217;t be uttered. Of what use is such a forum as that?<br />
Debates in other forums on other topics, the hot issues of our times&#8211;the stimulus or pork package (depending on how one views it),  immigration reform, border control, bank and homeowner bailouts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the genocide in Darfur, the West Bank settlements, etc. would also bring about comments that might offend, but saying &#8220;that&#8217;s offensive&#8221; is not reason to stop debate.<br />
This is, in part, a science blog; one of Warren&#8217;s major topics is sexuality.  Comments about science research&#8211; hypotheses, theories, etc. about sexuality&#8211; are  appropriate and to be expected.<br />
 We know, in a sense, the cause of heterosexuality&#8211;the evolutionary directive to reproduce, even if we haven&#8217;t identified the mechanisms, the specific cells/neurons  that identify a target  mate for reproductive success.   Thus, scientists usually study the anomaly, not the norm.<br />
So, since science hasn&#8217;t identified the cause of homosexuality,  do you presume to tell scientists and those who read science research blogs that they ought not consider certain etiologies because they offend your sensibilities?<br />
 You seem to be saying, &#8220;Go ahead and study, but be sure you don&#8217;t propose a hypothesis to test which I don&#8217;t like; be sure you don&#8217;t  come up with an outcome I don&#8217;t like.&#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s just not the way it works.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mary		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/12/can-we-infer-the-past-from-the-present/#comment-25920</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3173#comment-25920</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Not to mention, the study of such helps us understand the development of sexuality in general.   How is it that there is such a thing as &quot;the norm&quot; and what causes anyone to deviate from that norm?   Whatever that deviation is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention, the study of such helps us understand the development of sexuality in general.   How is it that there is such a thing as &#8220;the norm&#8221; and what causes anyone to deviate from that norm?   Whatever that deviation is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/12/can-we-infer-the-past-from-the-present/#comment-25919</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3173#comment-25919</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I realize that &quot;this whole discussion of what causes gayness is offensive&quot; &lt;em&gt;to some.&lt;/em&gt; On the other hand, it&#039;s similarly offensive to dismiss this discussion of possible causes while science has yet to provide clear evidence of the origins. It is unscientific to rule out a possible cause without giving it due study and consideration.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize that &#8220;this whole discussion of what causes gayness is offensive&#8221; <em>to some.</em> On the other hand, it&#8217;s similarly offensive to dismiss this discussion of possible causes while science has yet to provide clear evidence of the origins. It is unscientific to rule out a possible cause without giving it due study and consideration.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/02/12/can-we-infer-the-past-from-the-present/#comment-25918</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=3173#comment-25918</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Evan noted:  &lt;em&gt;&quot;From my experience, boys are interested in girls way before puberty hits.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;
I assume he is speaking of &lt;em&gt;straight &lt;/em&gt;boys.  At age six, I had definite interest in boys, not girls.  The only interest I had in girls was how Rita kept beating me in the Spelling Bee.
This whole discussion of what causes gayness is offensive, because unlike heterosexuality, gayness is presented as some sort of brokeness or disease.  It is assumed to be the result of trauma, developmental deficits, bad parenting, abuse, etc.  It&#039;s a illness model -- and that reveals the underlying, unscientific (usually religious) prejudice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan noted:  <em>&#8220;From my experience, boys are interested in girls way before puberty hits.&#8221;</em><br />
I assume he is speaking of <em>straight </em>boys.  At age six, I had definite interest in boys, not girls.  The only interest I had in girls was how Rita kept beating me in the Spelling Bee.<br />
This whole discussion of what causes gayness is offensive, because unlike heterosexuality, gayness is presented as some sort of brokeness or disease.  It is assumed to be the result of trauma, developmental deficits, bad parenting, abuse, etc.  It&#8217;s a illness model &#8212; and that reveals the underlying, unscientific (usually religious) prejudice.</p>
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