Comments on: Gay children: Is it the parent's fault?

By: Sherry

Sherry — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:57:58 +0000

Thank you for bringing up this issue, even though I personally have no dealings with gays or gay children, other than homosexuals pushing a political agenda. It’s the pursuit of Truth that is important, & we can never help individuals & families if we can’t face up to the complexity of the issue. I’m guessing that at least some of the negative responses you’ve received come from a fearful gut reaction to the possibility that we (meaning Christian parents in general) could bear gay children–& then what do we do if there’s no simple answer? My “we” is metaphorical, since I’m 49 & am highly unlikely to bear anymore children, but I can certainly understand younger parents having that kind of fear response.
Interestingly, I’ve fairly recently come across a couple of cases where the gay person admits to being gay by choice. Not sure what to make of them.

By: Warren

Warren — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:11:34 +0000

@Evan:

This is direct evidence that same-sex parenting can make a difference in outcomes in terms of health or type of partnership (homo or hetero), however any link with attractions is only indirect and correlational but cannot be overlooked.

No, the correlations cannot be overlooked but because they are correlations you cannot say that the global issues in Frisch are causative. Given the study you present regarding GAB, it seems quite clear that parents do not cause gender atypical behavior but rather react either poorly or well to a situation presented to them. The same is very possible with same-sex attraction and parenting. Given the mediation of gender atypicality on adult homosexuality, it seems quite reasonable to think that the parenting relationship is colored by reaction to the temperament of the child.
Another note about Frisch, the effect sizes are quite small. Around or less than 1%. It is hard to get very excited about predictive variables when they only explain less than a percent of the variance. And on one measure (death of father) there was no influence on partner choice at all. My stat friend and colleague, Gary Welton, said when looking at this study, said what was remarkable was how little any of these variables was associated with outcomes. I agree.
Having fathers around is important for a host of important outcomes, but sexual orientation on balance is not one of them.

By: Evan

Evan — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 08:56:45 +0000

Warren,
I did not ignore your question. Computer trouble prevented me from sending my reply. Here’s what I wrote a few minutes after you posed your question:
– Parenting style can moderate the risk gender atypical behaviour can pose for future adult psychiatric symptoms (the same-sex parent seems to play a pivotal role there): Alanko et al (2008), The Association Between Childhood Gender Atypical Behavior and Adult Psychiatric Symptoms is Moderated by Parenting Style, DOI 10.1007/s11199-008-9395-5. Short presentation.
– Absent same-sex parent correlates with homosexual marriage in a national cohort study of 2 million Danes: Frisch & Hviid (2006), Childhood Family Correlates of Heterosexual and Homosexual Marriages: A National Cohort Study of Two Million Danes, DOI 10.1007/s10508-006-9062-2. Long, but colourful presentation.
This is direct evidence that same-sex parenting can make a difference in outcomes in terms of health or type of partnership (homo or hetero), however any link with attractions is only indirect and correlational but cannot be overlooked.
It could be that in some cases, children with particular termperaments would benefit from a stronger involvement of a same-sex parent than other, less atypical, children would need to adjust. If the EBE theory is right, some atypical children might grow up without seeing their same-sex peers as exotic, if they receive the support they need from a same-sex parent (or if they are lucky enough not to be rejected). Others would not be much influenced by parenting styles even in very difficult circumstances.
It is also possible that the kind of subtle influences that can impinge on a child’s development are not captured properly by any study yet. Does anyone objectively evaluate the relations father-mother and father-child-mother? It would be very interesting to see all of them surveyed for temperamental dimensions, attachment patterns, levels of aggressiveness, personality and coping styles. I’d like to see parents themselves being rated by other adults, for instance, for gender typicality.

By: Lynn David

Lynn David — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 01:26:20 +0000

I’d sure hate to live in a society in which people are “scrapping every dad for bread to put on the table.” I’m not sure how many loaves ‘dear ole dad’ would’ve been worth. Who knows if we’d have scrapped dad, I might’ve been straight.
I cannot think of anything external to myself, in the family, in society, on television, nothing outside of myself which led to homosexuality. The idea that homosexuality is “wrong-headed” seems to have landed it into the realm of psychology. Trouble is, no one ever really provided real evidence that homosexuality is “wrong-headed.” One might ask why we are discussing this issue in the realm of psychology at all?

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:44:29 +0000

@Evan:
Make a difference in what?

By: Evan

Evan — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:40:11 +0000

Warren,
Maybe parenting can make a difference mostly in the cases of difficult temperaments. Since both can vary, so can outcomes.

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:12:33 +0000

@Mary:
You raise a valuable point regarding the cultural context. Perhaps this is where you going I don’t know but your note made me think of how parenting has changes over history. What the reparative therapists consider “salience” of bonding was probably not attainable in times past. In other times, father was not considered a friend or a close dad but rather a teacher and responsible for toughening up the lad. In some areas of the world, parents have no ability to be salient, they are scrapping every dad for bread to put on the table. Kids have no childhood, no real relationship with their parents and yet heterosexuality is far and away the outcome in these settings with homosexuality being relatively rare. It appears social conditions can move the prevalence up and down a bit but if parenting was massively responsible, it seems that you would see much bigger differences in prevalence across time and cultures.

By: Mary

Mary — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:05:42 +0000

Warren,
Isn’t it sort like trying to hit a moving target. The social expectations of children, parents, males, females are continually changing and when we see anyone of these varying of the presumed “normal” path we attribute one action to the other. Anyone of these studies has there time and place and “truth” but then society changes and we see homosexuality still occurring.

By: Ann

Ann — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:27:45 +0000

I am not sure what the average age a child is when they feel confident enough to tell their parent or parents about their SSA. I don’t think it is when they are in the early stages of discovery though. If these feelings were not held in such secrecy, and shame was not a component, is there any data on whether their initial SSA could be re-directed as other thoughts and behaviors in children are?

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:16:02 +0000

@David Blakeslee:
You are probably referring to the causal factors paper Welton and I did for the Sexual Identity Research Summit. The highest variance in Evans 1969 study was 13.7% for mothering and 16.2% for mothering. However, there were no other variables except gender non-conformity measured (37.1%). In other words, they were not asked about anything else, nor were they asked when the problems arose. Surveys which find parenting problems are not helpful as causation research unless they locate the problems prior to the SSA.
Later studies, (Bell & Weinberg and Seutter & Rovers) found much less variance explained by parenting variables. Much less. Seutter & Rovers in 2004 found no influence of mother and only 4.1% of the variance explained by an assessment of intimacy with father. On another dimension of fathering – intimidation – they found no difference between gays and straights.
Are there some men who are drawn to sexual intimacy with other men because of a lack of paternal nurturance? Probably so. Does this factor explain SSA that arises spontaneously in adolescence for men in average households? I am very skeptical.
I think one must examine not only the existence of SSA but the pattern of its emergence to have any ability to make an attribution about related or even causal factors.