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	Comments on: PANDAS &#8211; Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptococci	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: carole		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24836</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[carole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 05:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24836</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Warren,
OMG, I just read the article you shared with Victoria.  Recall that I researched PANDAS  right before I found this blog.  I was a kid with some compulsions, and I think (but can&#039;t be absolutely sure ) that it all began after an illness. Well, the behaviors you describe in your article fit me to a tee.  The checking under the bed for a snake or a monster or something bad hanging out is still vivid in my memory.  The checking over and over and over just wore me out.  I would guess I was about 8.
I KNEW that it was absolutely silly, but each time I checked under the bed and found nothing, I became immediately convinced that I hadn&#039;t checked well enough.  There was always a reason that compelled me to check again. I would be worn out in the morning.
I am convinced I had a case of it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren,<br />
OMG, I just read the article you shared with Victoria.  Recall that I researched PANDAS  right before I found this blog.  I was a kid with some compulsions, and I think (but can&#8217;t be absolutely sure ) that it all began after an illness. Well, the behaviors you describe in your article fit me to a tee.  The checking under the bed for a snake or a monster or something bad hanging out is still vivid in my memory.  The checking over and over and over just wore me out.  I would guess I was about 8.<br />
I KNEW that it was absolutely silly, but each time I checked under the bed and found nothing, I became immediately convinced that I hadn&#8217;t checked well enough.  There was always a reason that compelled me to check again. I would be worn out in the morning.<br />
I am convinced I had a case of it.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24835</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24835</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Victoria - Take this article to your pediatrician:
http://www.christianpost.com/blogs/health/2009/03/pandas-when-proper-counseling-is-an-antibiotic-09/index.html
The top NIMH scientist is quoted in there with good information regarding the problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victoria &#8211; Take this article to your pediatrician:<br />
<a href="http://www.christianpost.com/blogs/health/2009/03/pandas-when-proper-counseling-is-an-antibiotic-09/index.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.christianpost.com/blogs/health/2009/03/pandas-when-proper-counseling-is-an-antibiotic-09/index.html</a><br />
The top NIMH scientist is quoted in there with good information regarding the problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Victoria		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24834</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Victoria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24834</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a mother of a 5 year old w/ PANDAS, it scares me how the medical community is pushing these children aside and not treating them. I cannot even get proph antibiotics for my son even though he had his tonsils out to prevent strep, just to get strep and PANDAS resurface a month later for a 3rd time. It has been 5 months since his last strep infection. He is close to baseline and is still recovering from some residual OCD. I pray to God he doesn&#039;t get sick again. He is entering kindergarten in a week.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a mother of a 5 year old w/ PANDAS, it scares me how the medical community is pushing these children aside and not treating them. I cannot even get proph antibiotics for my son even though he had his tonsils out to prevent strep, just to get strep and PANDAS resurface a month later for a 3rd time. It has been 5 months since his last strep infection. He is close to baseline and is still recovering from some residual OCD. I pray to God he doesn&#8217;t get sick again. He is entering kindergarten in a week.</p>
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		<title>
		By: carole		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24833</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[carole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24833</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This goes back to 2002--the ability of viruses to travel from the nasal cavities to the brain although, of course, ithey have to make it through the defenses.  Check it out.
http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/83/9/2109.pdf -]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This goes back to 2002&#8211;the ability of viruses to travel from the nasal cavities to the brain although, of course, ithey have to make it through the defenses.  Check it out.<br />
<a href="http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/83/9/2109.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/83/9/2109.pdf</a> &#8211;</p>
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		<title>
		By: carole		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24832</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[carole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24832</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think this is the right thread for this:  Yowza!
 I mean I knew about the other infectious causes of schiz, but I had never heard that &lt;em&gt;T. gondii &lt;/em&gt;was also a cause.   I do know they figure that the wide spectrum of behavior termed schiz (and of course they have physiological  proof that the brain has undergone deterioration by looking at scans) is caused by many things including different pathogens that have been identified as suspects,  but  &lt;em&gt;T gondii&lt;/em&gt;?
I&#039;ve lived with cats all my life!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is the right thread for this:  Yowza!<br />
 I mean I knew about the other infectious causes of schiz, but I had never heard that <em>T. gondii </em>was also a cause.   I do know they figure that the wide spectrum of behavior termed schiz (and of course they have physiological  proof that the brain has undergone deterioration by looking at scans) is caused by many things including different pathogens that have been identified as suspects,  but  <em>T gondii</em>?<br />
I&#8217;ve lived with cats all my life!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Drowssap		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24831</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drowssap]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24831</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24827&quot;&gt;carole&lt;/a&gt;.

Good find, wow this stuff is happening everywhere!
---
The said truth is that if this happened to humans scientists would immediately start looking for the genes responsible.  For example up until recently 90% of all Autism research money went towards genetics.  (facepalm)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24827">carole</a>.</p>
<p>Good find, wow this stuff is happening everywhere!<br />
&#8212;<br />
The said truth is that if this happened to humans scientists would immediately start looking for the genes responsible.  For example up until recently 90% of all Autism research money went towards genetics.  (facepalm)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Drowssap		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24830</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drowssap]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24830</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24826&quot;&gt;Patrick&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;strong&gt;Patrick&lt;/strong&gt;
By the time someone is an adult it seems almost certain that virtually everyone would have come in contact with the &quot;gay germ.&quot;  That makes it really tough.
---
&lt;strong&gt;Maybe&lt;/strong&gt; scientists could look at young children with gender dysphoria for increased reactivity to something.  Realistically speaking sheep are the easiest because scientists can remove them from their normal environment and crank down the variables until they get an answer.  If a &quot;gay germ&quot; actually exists and they find it then they can look for it in humans.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24826">Patrick</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Patrick</strong><br />
By the time someone is an adult it seems almost certain that virtually everyone would have come in contact with the &#8220;gay germ.&#8221;  That makes it really tough.<br />
&#8212;<br />
<strong>Maybe</strong> scientists could look at young children with gender dysphoria for increased reactivity to something.  Realistically speaking sheep are the easiest because scientists can remove them from their normal environment and crank down the variables until they get an answer.  If a &#8220;gay germ&#8221; actually exists and they find it then they can look for it in humans.</p>
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		<title>
		By: carole		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24829</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[carole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24829</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Patrick said,
&lt;blockquote&gt;As for Paul Cameron - he is an extremely antigay propagandist who uses BS stats to try to paint gays as diseased and depraved.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Thanks for the heads-up.  I don&#039;t know what causes that kind of belief/behavior from someone who&#039;d say that.
  I am always reminded of John Knowles, who through  his narrator Gene in
 &lt;em&gt;A Separate Peace &lt;/em&gt;spoke of  &quot;something ignorant in the human heart.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick said,</p>
<blockquote><p>As for Paul Cameron &#8211; he is an extremely antigay propagandist who uses BS stats to try to paint gays as diseased and depraved.</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks for the heads-up.  I don&#8217;t know what causes that kind of belief/behavior from someone who&#8217;d say that.<br />
  I am always reminded of John Knowles, who through  his narrator Gene in<br />
 <em>A Separate Peace </em>spoke of  &#8220;something ignorant in the human heart.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: carole		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24828</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[carole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24828</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Patrick said,
&lt;blockquote&gt;If you are talking about non-STD pathogens - then the most likely mode of transmisson is inhalation and/or physical contact (shaking hands - handling contaminated objects etc). &lt;/blockquote&gt;
We really don&#039;t know.  What we &lt;strong&gt;do&lt;/strong&gt; know is that germs are like the inimitable cockroach--always changing or ready to change. Yes, many of these non-STDs would gain their mobility through a  host&#039;s sneezing, coughing, touching, not through sexual contact.     A lot of them don&#039;t transport themselves at all.  They are content to live on us--skin, hair, eyelashes even--and in us,--in our mouths, ears, nose and other orifices.
The thing is, however, when those germs happen to get introduced into a new environment, one that they find unfriendly, they are just like us--they struggle mightily to survive. They are looking to grab onto something that will act like a life raft the same way a non-swimmer is looking for one when he finds himself in a body of water.
So, if a germ is introduced into the rectum by a finger, a penis, a whatever.... and finds it a hostile place, it may find egress  out of there through a tiny life raft--a scratch in the rectal wall (and the rectum is not hard to scratch).  Some germs are better at surviving than others.
 The question becomes, can that germ survive in that environment?  Can it replicate  itself there? If it does,  and it causes symptoms, the host goes to the doctor and the doctor treats the infection.  This is what happens with most STDs.  Thankfully,  most of them  produce uncomfortable symptoms, uncomfortable enough to get people to seek help before the germ has done lasting damage.   However, women infected with syphilis are often asymptomatic for a long time.  This is when things are really dangerous--when they &lt;strong&gt;don&#039;t &lt;/strong&gt;produce symptoms,  and thus the host doesn&#039;t get treated quickly.
Sorry--- back to the hypothetical &quot;non-STD&quot; germ in the rectum---&lt;strong&gt;if  it is still alive  &lt;/strong&gt;but finds  the other side of the rectal wall just as unfriendly as the rectum itself,    can it transport itself to a friendlier environment  like the liver, the spleen, the intestines, the wherever?  Can it latch onto the outside of the colon&#039;s wall, for instance?   Can it hop a ride to another place, a friendlier place, by riding through the blood stream?    Can it change itself and manage to survive somewhere in the body  by not making itself known for a long while,  by seeing to it the host has no symptoms?  Then, years and years later, will it have been  found to be the cause of a slow-growing tumor, a cancer?
 Or, did the germ just die, finding that it could not survive the environment  in which it found itself?   Or another possibility.... did it manage to find a safe place where it could reproduce and live happily and peacefully inside us like it appears so many others do.( I&#039;ll add here that we should not be one day surprised to discover that so-called benign germs that live in our stomach or digestive tract, say, have actually done damage we didn&#039;t anticipate.)
As  in so many cases, the load matters.  A few germs introduced into a strange new place might  die quickly in such an environment, but if  a lot of germs are introduced a few at a time through each sexual contact, perhaps a really strong one survives and  evolves to prosper and multiply.
 This is where the field of molecular biology is now headed since  science has accepted that  the germ theory of disease put forth by people like Hamilton, Ewald, and Cochran was not poppycock.   It&#039;s taken many years for the theorists to have convinced the people in the labs that  they were looking for the causes  of cancer in many of the wrong places. Perhaps it was just failure alone that convinced those researchers and their progeny that they had been looking in the wrong places. Compare the number of studies of pathogenic causes of things done 20 years ago to the number today,  and it is astounding.
It&#039;s dawning on them that the brain is just like all our other organs--susceptible to those wily germs. And the most intriguing question of all is, &quot;Are there germs that have hijacked our brains and thus our behavior to their own advantage, like &lt;em&gt;T. gondii&lt;/em&gt;, which uses the rodent as an intermediary host to get to its ultimate host, the cat and a few other animals, including man?   The rodent infected with &lt;em&gt;T. gondii &lt;/em&gt;loses its fear of cat urine and is eaten by the cat.  &lt;em&gt;Viola! &lt;/em&gt; Mission accomplished.  (BTW, there is no suggestion here that SSA is the by-product of such a hijacking.)
People can die from the brain cysts of &lt;em&gt;T gondii. &lt;/em&gt; Pregnant women lose their babies or their babies suffer damage. However, millions of people in the world, particularly people in countries that eat undercooked meat, have &lt;em&gt;T. gondii &lt;/em&gt;infections  and researchers are studying whether their behaviors have been affected even though they certainly do not appear ill.   France is one such country although there are many others. Yes, it&#039;s a great subject of jokes among researchers that the French are loaded with &lt;em&gt;T. gondii. &lt;/em&gt; Does that explain the de Gaullian personality of so many?  LOL.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I would think that the celibate gays would be just as likely as the sexually active gays to have these pathogens (as well as everyone else).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, of course, these same non-STD pathogens  are on and in the bodies of both celibate and non-celibate people of all orientations.
However,  because a celibate person,  gay or straight,  has had nothing introduced into a rectum, colon,  or  vagina, (unless they placed an object there)  those pathogens don&#039;t enter those places where they then might find a passage to another part of the body as I described above. And,  I will repeat that it&#039;s much easier to get from the rectum to another part of the body than it is to get from the vagina to another part of the body.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick said,</p>
<blockquote><p>If you are talking about non-STD pathogens &#8211; then the most likely mode of transmisson is inhalation and/or physical contact (shaking hands &#8211; handling contaminated objects etc). </p></blockquote>
<p>We really don&#8217;t know.  What we <strong>do</strong> know is that germs are like the inimitable cockroach&#8211;always changing or ready to change. Yes, many of these non-STDs would gain their mobility through a  host&#8217;s sneezing, coughing, touching, not through sexual contact.     A lot of them don&#8217;t transport themselves at all.  They are content to live on us&#8211;skin, hair, eyelashes even&#8211;and in us,&#8211;in our mouths, ears, nose and other orifices.<br />
The thing is, however, when those germs happen to get introduced into a new environment, one that they find unfriendly, they are just like us&#8211;they struggle mightily to survive. They are looking to grab onto something that will act like a life raft the same way a non-swimmer is looking for one when he finds himself in a body of water.<br />
So, if a germ is introduced into the rectum by a finger, a penis, a whatever&#8230;. and finds it a hostile place, it may find egress  out of there through a tiny life raft&#8211;a scratch in the rectal wall (and the rectum is not hard to scratch).  Some germs are better at surviving than others.<br />
 The question becomes, can that germ survive in that environment?  Can it replicate  itself there? If it does,  and it causes symptoms, the host goes to the doctor and the doctor treats the infection.  This is what happens with most STDs.  Thankfully,  most of them  produce uncomfortable symptoms, uncomfortable enough to get people to seek help before the germ has done lasting damage.   However, women infected with syphilis are often asymptomatic for a long time.  This is when things are really dangerous&#8211;when they <strong>don&#8217;t </strong>produce symptoms,  and thus the host doesn&#8217;t get treated quickly.<br />
Sorry&#8212; back to the hypothetical &#8220;non-STD&#8221; germ in the rectum&#8212;<strong>if  it is still alive  </strong>but finds  the other side of the rectal wall just as unfriendly as the rectum itself,    can it transport itself to a friendlier environment  like the liver, the spleen, the intestines, the wherever?  Can it latch onto the outside of the colon&#8217;s wall, for instance?   Can it hop a ride to another place, a friendlier place, by riding through the blood stream?    Can it change itself and manage to survive somewhere in the body  by not making itself known for a long while,  by seeing to it the host has no symptoms?  Then, years and years later, will it have been  found to be the cause of a slow-growing tumor, a cancer?<br />
 Or, did the germ just die, finding that it could not survive the environment  in which it found itself?   Or another possibility&#8230;. did it manage to find a safe place where it could reproduce and live happily and peacefully inside us like it appears so many others do.( I&#8217;ll add here that we should not be one day surprised to discover that so-called benign germs that live in our stomach or digestive tract, say, have actually done damage we didn&#8217;t anticipate.)<br />
As  in so many cases, the load matters.  A few germs introduced into a strange new place might  die quickly in such an environment, but if  a lot of germs are introduced a few at a time through each sexual contact, perhaps a really strong one survives and  evolves to prosper and multiply.<br />
 This is where the field of molecular biology is now headed since  science has accepted that  the germ theory of disease put forth by people like Hamilton, Ewald, and Cochran was not poppycock.   It&#8217;s taken many years for the theorists to have convinced the people in the labs that  they were looking for the causes  of cancer in many of the wrong places. Perhaps it was just failure alone that convinced those researchers and their progeny that they had been looking in the wrong places. Compare the number of studies of pathogenic causes of things done 20 years ago to the number today,  and it is astounding.<br />
It&#8217;s dawning on them that the brain is just like all our other organs&#8211;susceptible to those wily germs. And the most intriguing question of all is, &#8220;Are there germs that have hijacked our brains and thus our behavior to their own advantage, like <em>T. gondii</em>, which uses the rodent as an intermediary host to get to its ultimate host, the cat and a few other animals, including man?   The rodent infected with <em>T. gondii </em>loses its fear of cat urine and is eaten by the cat.  <em>Viola! </em> Mission accomplished.  (BTW, there is no suggestion here that SSA is the by-product of such a hijacking.)<br />
People can die from the brain cysts of <em>T gondii. </em> Pregnant women lose their babies or their babies suffer damage. However, millions of people in the world, particularly people in countries that eat undercooked meat, have <em>T. gondii </em>infections  and researchers are studying whether their behaviors have been affected even though they certainly do not appear ill.   France is one such country although there are many others. Yes, it&#8217;s a great subject of jokes among researchers that the French are loaded with <em>T. gondii. </em> Does that explain the de Gaullian personality of so many?  LOL.</p>
<blockquote><p>I would think that the celibate gays would be just as likely as the sexually active gays to have these pathogens (as well as everyone else).</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, of course, these same non-STD pathogens  are on and in the bodies of both celibate and non-celibate people of all orientations.<br />
However,  because a celibate person,  gay or straight,  has had nothing introduced into a rectum, colon,  or  vagina, (unless they placed an object there)  those pathogens don&#8217;t enter those places where they then might find a passage to another part of the body as I described above. And,  I will repeat that it&#8217;s much easier to get from the rectum to another part of the body than it is to get from the vagina to another part of the body.</p>
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		<title>
		By: carole		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2009/01/03/pandas-pediatric-autoimmune-neuropsychiatric-disorders-associated-with-streptococci/#comment-24827</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[carole]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2937#comment-24827</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I couldn&#039;t resist posting this one--about how they&#039;ve discovered a pathogen is repsonsible for causing a poinsettia to branch out by hijacking its  growth mechanism.  I think the microbes are wanting us to know just how much they control us and every other living thing.   HA!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n6_v151/ai_19123461]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t resist posting this one&#8211;about how they&#8217;ve discovered a pathogen is repsonsible for causing a poinsettia to branch out by hijacking its  growth mechanism.  I think the microbes are wanting us to know just how much they control us and every other living thing.   HA!<br />
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