Comments on: Post Prop 8 – Ugly scene in the Castro

By: Timothy (TRiG)

Timothy (TRiG) — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:25:45 +0000

Half the time, I suspect that people are visiting other blogs where the conversations are either vile or nonsensical and then come here and unload.

Eddie, you have a point. Sorry about that. I hang around the CARM messageboard, and it can be quite a nasty place at times (though it’s also strangely compelling). I shouldn’t be taking my frustrations out on you lot.
You suggest that Ann and I are basically in agreement about equal rights. It seems we are. I’m just not sure what strange definition of morality Ann is using whereby equality is not deemed a moral issue. I think it’s a fundamental moral issue.
And our morality should, of course, flow from evidence-based thinking.

Would you be willing to respect the person’s belief about their religion?

Well, Ann, I suppose it depends on what you mean by respect. I don’t see how I can, or why I should, respect a belief held in the teeth of the evidence, as the vast majority of religious beliefs are.

I’m not sure about the difference sometimes between a ridiculously held religious belief and science that has not fully discovered the DNA and all of it’s components. In fact, we are all (on any notion scientific or otherwise) a few cards short of understanding everything.

I’m not sure what you mean by this, Mary. You seem to be suggesting that we cannot know everything (true) and that therefore all ideas are on equal footing (false). There is a difference between incomplete knowledge and the “Here be dragons” thinking of the religious.
TRiG.

By: Ann

Ann — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:06:31 +0000

There’s a difference between respecting a person and respecting that person’s religion. To do the first is right; to do the second is ridiculous

Timothy (TRiG),
Would you be willing to respect the person’s belief about their religion?

By: Mary

Mary — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:26:37 +0000

Trig,
I’m not sure about the difference sometimes between a ridiculously held religious belief and science that has not fully discovered the DNA and all of it’s components. In fact, we are all (on any notion scientific or otherwise) a few cards short of understanding everything.
If you think that respecting a person’s religion is ridiculous – then respecting a person’s ideas about himself, where he comes from etc… is ridiculous?
Just pointing out that.

By: Eddy

Eddy — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:46:30 +0000

Boo–
I believe that our questioning the authenticity of Phelp’s version of Christianity fits right in with “if we don’t start calling out this problem in our midst, we’re headed in the direction of Europe’s near-empty churches.” On one level, we’re saying “We’re conservative Christians and he doesn’t speak for us”; on another, we’re saying that his hate centered message is so contrary to the real Gospel that we doubt he’s a Christian at all. If that’s not ‘calling out this problem’, I’m at a real loss for words.
Trig–
It would help greatly if you were more specific in your charges. This is a blog so we can’t see who you’re looking at when you speak. A number of people are speaking so when you don’t cite specific individuals or comments, it’s very difficult to determine who or what you think embodies those nonsensical beliefs.
Half the time, I suspect that people are visiting other blogs where the conversations are either vile or nonsensical and then come here and unload. Boo, for example, speaks of debating fundamentalists. But, in this topic and its comments, we’ve had very few comments from people who hold to the mindset she details in her comments that follow that statement.
(On another thread, I’m taking a verbal beating for my support of President-elect Obama. In numerous threads I’ve challenged Christians for trying to legislate their own morality. I’ve cited that many are disguising their personal sin of selfishness by hiding behind Christian beliefs…this goes to my belief that many don’t want to extend equal rights primarily because they don’t want the extra expense added to their health and insurance plans. They have no trouble with the fact that gays are paying taxes to support schools when the majority of them have no children; they have no trouble with the fact that gays aren’t given a break on their insurance premiums based on the fact that they are unlikely to need pre-natal and maternity coverage. Yet they scream about the injustice of having to extend health care benefits to the life-partner or spouse of a gay person. To me that’s both selfish and hypocritical.)

By: Timothy (TRiG)

Timothy (TRiG) — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:29:06 +0000

Personally, I try not to insult people, but I’m certainly willing to make fun of nonsensical beliefs held in the teeth of the evidence. There’s a difference between respecting a person and respecting that person’s religion. To do the first is right; to do the second is ridiculous.
TRiG.