Comments on: Narth fact sheet: Female homosexual development

By: Timothy Kincaid

Timothy Kincaid — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:45:27 +0000

And the theme of this thread might be summized as:
If you put lipstick on a pig, will it fly?

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:03:21 +0000

And by that, I mean of course, not that NARTH members are pigs, but that the chances of NARTH becoming truly factual and objective are about as likely as Hell freezing over.
NARTH is, and always has been, an anti-gay, unscientific, ideologically based movement that tolerates hatemongers and wackos like Cameron, Berger and Schoenewolf. Yet, they blame their lack of credibility on others and continually whine that the APA will give them no respect. Respect has to be earned.

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:46:36 +0000

Furthermore, I do not think it is fair to blame the APA for something as awful as NARTH. I agree that "Narth’s calling should be to be rigorously thorough factual and objective." The important word here is "should". But, to use a similar analogy, "yeah, and pigs might fly".

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:43:33 +0000

David. You missed the point. I was not calling the PEOPLE of NARTH “pigs” — I was using the analogy that no matter how who dress up something ugly, it’s still ugly — and keeping people like Cameron, Berger and Schoenewolk is ugly. Even Throckmorton call’s Cameron’s views “abhorrent”. Why won’t NARTH?

By: Warren

Warren — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:28:38 +0000

The APA sexual orientation task force reports soon and we will see where things stand. As Dean Byrd pointed out, the APA has become more nuanced.
The open question is: When will NARTH?

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:26:46 +0000

It is an organization whose members are primarily theorists who mostly hold to a developmental model.
People, whom you may or may not like, not pigs.
Narth would not need to exist at all if the APA had not so politicized this issue the last 40 years.
Narth’s calling should be to be rigorously thorough factual and objective. Hopefully accountability for NARTH whill facilitate this.
Nevertheless, APA still has much work to do.

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:42:16 +0000

David: I think it would take a LOT more than a NARTH “name change” to “better communicate the strengths and limitations of this organization.”
It would take a true dedication to science, not ideology. It would take and understanding on NARTH’s part that theories are not facts and that religious prejudice and science do not mix.
NARTH would have to strongly denounce Cameron’s views, diconnect from EXODUS, stir completely clear of politics, and unload “experts” like Berger and Schoenewolf — among other things..
Changing names or terminology won’t cut it. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

By: David Blakeslee

David Blakeslee — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:13:47 +0000

feminine and masculine pathways for arousal are due to biological factors, cultural training and probably parent/peer effects.
Since the two sexes are biologically different it is important to treat research on SSA in each population as a discrete entity and not conflate gays and lesbians in research as “homosexuals.”
It is an error of false homogeneity of the sample (no pun intended).
These are heterogenous groups which behave in ways not easily blended, but have overlapping political goals…that may be the main thing they have in common.
I do think a change in Narth’s name along the lines of a developmental model would help better communicate the strengths and limitations of this organization.

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:57:50 +0000

It is odd to see the words “NARTH” and “FACT” in the same headline.

By: Mary

Mary — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:52:42 +0000

Keeping in mind that there must be several things in place. Genetics/personality/temperment is huge.