Comments on: San Jose/Evergreen Community College adjunct professor dismissed for discussion of homosexuality causes, sues college

By: jayhuck

jayhuck — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:27:07 +0000

Regardless of the case, I think a great deal of this stress over teaching or not teaching certain subjects as it were could be curbed if we could establish from the get-go that gay people are people worthy of all the same rights as straight people – as well as worthy of respect and acceptance. If that could be made clear, up front, in all classes, especially those that deal with such sensitive topics, then I think we could diffuse some of the tension, then going forward hopefully open up a door, or at least a window, to discussing these topics. That many colleges make statements affirming homosexual orientation is NOT the same thing as having instructors enforce the spirit of such statements. Remember, we’re dealing with a minority that has historically been abused, rejected and been made to feel less-than-human. We have to be careful about how we tread into this territory – BUT, at the same time, make certain we ARE able to discuss these issues
It wouldn’t be handled any differently if this were another minority and we were talking about the causes for their existence.

By: Mary

Mary — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:26:42 +0000

Timothy,
I agree. At present, I am tired of all the misrepresentations that both sides make. I’m kind of embarrassed on both sides since I’ve been on both sides (if you will – you know what I mean.)
I read the same thing – daily – each group claims a small percentage as the representation of an entire population. And research is skewed. We will never get to the truth about sexual development so long as we knock heads. And I for one am very interested to know how sexuality develops.
Can we start a counsel of people who overlook such things. Can there ever be a moderate voice or one that finds the true facts?? Amazing.
Did you read about the woman who went to the hearing on gays in the military and spouted off ideas??? Did she not do her research about all the sexual misconduct in the military now? It has nothing to do with gay or straight but everything to do with the military’s long history of systematically allowing sexual “freeness” to go unchecked.
On behalf of Christians with reason – I apologize for that gross display of ignorance.
But anyhow – you and I are both frustrated. I’d like to see the polarity ended.

By: Timothy Kincaid

Timothy Kincaid — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:53:14 +0000

Mary,
I’ve honestly been thinking about this. And while I will agree that the gay media also has misrepresentation and a desire to only present gay folks in a positive light, I truly believe that the levels of misrepresentation are not the same.
For example, there are quite a few Christian websites that will blatantly state “facts” and “studies” about gay folks that are truly demonstrably false. And we can thank Warren and his integrity that quite a few have remove these bogus claims.
But I truly can’t think of any offhand (though they may exist) that produce bogus statistics about conservative Christians. Yes, some are downright hateful, and some spew bile, but I don’t see made up studies.
In short, I very freqently (I’d say almost daily) read something that a conservative Christian has said about gay folk that is an outright lie. And it is not often that I read something that a gay person has said about conservative Christians that is a lie.

By: Mary

Mary — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:00:35 +0000

Just a note: I have found as much misrepresentation in gay “media” statistics, research etc… as I have with the far right. Trying to get accurate numbers or news sources has become – really – only a game of who gets their info out to the most websites or who gets it to a news source first – forget about the relaibility of the facts, or how a study was performed, or by which group and who supports that group. It’s manipulation.
One would think that we would work together. It seems we need to all soften up a bit.

By: Timothy Kincaid

Timothy Kincaid — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:48:50 +0000

Dave,
Tim: If I heard something negative about gay people in general, I would likely ask one of my gay friends about it. Although we may not agree on the wrongness of homosexual intercourse, I respect the many good and positive qualities of the persons I know who self-identify as “gay.” I would not make any final evaluation of the information without further research, but I do prefer to “think positive.”
I’m encouraged that you would not rush to repeat accusations. Though, to be honest, that is how your defense of Paul Cameron felt to me.
I would just caution that your gay friends may be no more informed about research than any average person off the street. And there is no uniformity within the collective of gay people, though similar people tend to find each other.
So it is entirely possible that your gay friends share with you a desire to believe ill of gay people in general. I’ve met such gay folks. And considering the perspective you have shared here, I find it HIGHLY likely that the gay people that are your friends are either ex-gays or other gay people that share with you an antipathy for “the gay lifestyle” and a willingness to believe ill of others.
What I’m trying to say (though may be doing so poorly) is that confirmation from someone who agrees with you is not an indication of proof.
If, for example, someone said, “All gay men are promiscuous” and then you went and asked a man who is ex-gay and had lived a life of promiscuity, he would probably confirm the claim. That is his experience.
But if you asked a gay couple that had been together for 25 years, they probably would laugh at you and say that they don’t know anyone at all who is promiscuous. Their friends are not, you see.
The truth would lie with neither of these witnesses. Because neither group is representative of the whole. In order to confirm or deny the claim, you’d have to look to representative samples.
The trick is to avoid going to bogus research, on either side. If one wants to be an advocate for a position, it’s very tempting to find something that backs up your claim. If one wants to be hateful, one looks to the hatemongers who twist facts and extrapolate the bizarre and make up stories.
But if one really and truly cares about honest conversation, you either find a credible source or you don’t make the claim.
If you look at most of my debating with you, you’ll find that I don’t claim that the opposite of what you claim is true.
I don’t, for example, make the claim that there is no difference in mortality between gays and straights. Because, I honestly don’t know. I’ve read speculation that gays who are not infected with HIV live longer than their straight counterparts. I’ve read the opposite. And while some arguments are interesting, there is no credible evidence.
But I also know with absolute certainty that the anti-gay claims are not based in fact. Because I bothered to check.
All I ask is that you do the same. That you bother to check. And that you not rely on anti-gay activists to tell you your facts without confirming them. And I ask that you avoid the trap of thinking, “If the Bible condemns gays, then anything negative said about gays must be in accordance with Biblical Truth”.
I ask that you not repeat accusations without knowing – for yourself based on real hard studies – that what you are repeating is in fact true.