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	Comments on: Exodus International: Open forum	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:37:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18413</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18413</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The side blog that Justin created was active for a few days but I’ve checked in occasionally and the conversation came to a halt weeks ago.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Eddy,
Thank you so much for reminding me about Justin&#039;s blog - I hope it continues.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The side blog that Justin created was active for a few days but I’ve checked in occasionally and the conversation came to a halt weeks ago.</p></blockquote>
<p>Eddy,<br />
Thank you so much for reminding me about Justin&#8217;s blog &#8211; I hope it continues.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18412</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 01:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18412</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron-
Didn&#039;t mean  to ignore the fact that you had dropped in. I was actually waiting for Michael to respond to you. I did note that he was commenting on some other topics but then most of the topic threads went to the political race and a number of us regulars got a bit scarce.
It was good to hear from you. I&#039;m in regular e-mail contact with Robbi K., Lori T. (now Lori R.) and Doug H. Since Warren&#039;s blog pulled me &#039;sort of&#039; out of retirement, I&#039;ve also had a few email chats with Alan Chambers and Dan P. (current director of Outpost).
I&#039;m trusting all is well with you...and hope that you &#039;subscribed&#039; to this topic so that you&#039;ll get my greetings.
The side blog that Justin created was active for a few days but I&#039;ve checked in occasionally and the conversation came to a halt weeks ago.
If we survive Campaign &#039;08, check back in and search either &#039;ex-gay&#039; or &#039;Exodus&#039;, it&#039;s likely you&#039;ll find us commenting there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron-<br />
Didn&#8217;t mean  to ignore the fact that you had dropped in. I was actually waiting for Michael to respond to you. I did note that he was commenting on some other topics but then most of the topic threads went to the political race and a number of us regulars got a bit scarce.<br />
It was good to hear from you. I&#8217;m in regular e-mail contact with Robbi K., Lori T. (now Lori R.) and Doug H. Since Warren&#8217;s blog pulled me &#8216;sort of&#8217; out of retirement, I&#8217;ve also had a few email chats with Alan Chambers and Dan P. (current director of Outpost).<br />
I&#8217;m trusting all is well with you&#8230;and hope that you &#8216;subscribed&#8217; to this topic so that you&#8217;ll get my greetings.<br />
The side blog that Justin created was active for a few days but I&#8217;ve checked in occasionally and the conversation came to a halt weeks ago.<br />
If we survive Campaign &#8217;08, check back in and search either &#8216;ex-gay&#8217; or &#8216;Exodus&#8217;, it&#8217;s likely you&#8217;ll find us commenting there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Dennis		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Dennis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Gang,
After hearing that I was being “beaten up”on the Exodus International Forum, I reluctantly and hesitantly went there to see what was going on. I’ve been &lt;em&gt;interneting&lt;/em&gt; since the 80’s, and the few forums or’blogs’ I ever went to (gay or Christian) started out good, but always degenerated to *&#038;#@* and name calling. It’s refreshing to hear civil dialog from both sides.
I’m going to try to keep this short for now. Lots more to read. It’s great to hear from some “old timers” from the original Exodus Board. Hi Robbi, and Mike. Hi Ed, Justin, et al.. Been in touch with Frank, Doug and Greg a few times over the years.*   Once with Jim K (years ago). He requested his name be withheld and I’ve honored that request. Did some ministry together with Perry Desmond in California a few years before he died. I still have a few copies of his book, “Perry.” What ever happened to Sharon Kuhn. I remember she married. I still have a copy of her little red booklet, “Misconceptions of Homosexuality.”
*note: all the original Exodus Board did not “go back into the gay lifestyle” – as posted elsewhere.
BTW Mike
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. My testimony speaks of being beaten up and left for dead in a robbery at my home several years before my conversion to Christ at MCC in 1973. Haven’t hit (cruised) the bars since. There was a Brother at Oakland Exodus who believed God was calling him to go into gay bars to minister, could have been him.
Most of my dialog with you and/or Jim was weeks before the first gathering at Melodyland that you both thankfully pulled together (1976?). A friend from church in Las Vegas had visited Melodyland (his wife sang there one weekend). He brought me a bulletin mentioning an informal gathering for people in ex-gay ministry. He knew my story, and that I had started Theophilus Ministries here in Nevada (NV), which still goes on. He thought maybe I ought to go. I thought we were the only ministry of its kind.
I called EXIT and wanted to come. Response was, “No, it’s a closed meeting.” I called a week later, response was about the same but “we’ll see.” I called a third time, the day before and said, “I’m coming,” and the rest in history.
memories Mike - A long time ago, several of us were concerned when you took your path away from Exodus and family. We located and visited you. We were invited in to your place and met your friend. I believe that was Gary.
All for the moment, will be back soon.
With love in Christ,
Ron
&#060;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gang,<br />
After hearing that I was being “beaten up”on the Exodus International Forum, I reluctantly and hesitantly went there to see what was going on. I’ve been <em>interneting</em> since the 80’s, and the few forums or’blogs’ I ever went to (gay or Christian) started out good, but always degenerated to *&amp;#@* and name calling. It’s refreshing to hear civil dialog from both sides.<br />
I’m going to try to keep this short for now. Lots more to read. It’s great to hear from some “old timers” from the original Exodus Board. Hi Robbi, and Mike. Hi Ed, Justin, et al.. Been in touch with Frank, Doug and Greg a few times over the years.*   Once with Jim K (years ago). He requested his name be withheld and I’ve honored that request. Did some ministry together with Perry Desmond in California a few years before he died. I still have a few copies of his book, “Perry.” What ever happened to Sharon Kuhn. I remember she married. I still have a copy of her little red booklet, “Misconceptions of Homosexuality.”<br />
*note: all the original Exodus Board did not “go back into the gay lifestyle” – as posted elsewhere.<br />
BTW Mike<br />
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. My testimony speaks of being beaten up and left for dead in a robbery at my home several years before my conversion to Christ at MCC in 1973. Haven’t hit (cruised) the bars since. There was a Brother at Oakland Exodus who believed God was calling him to go into gay bars to minister, could have been him.<br />
Most of my dialog with you and/or Jim was weeks before the first gathering at Melodyland that you both thankfully pulled together (1976?). A friend from church in Las Vegas had visited Melodyland (his wife sang there one weekend). He brought me a bulletin mentioning an informal gathering for people in ex-gay ministry. He knew my story, and that I had started Theophilus Ministries here in Nevada (NV), which still goes on. He thought maybe I ought to go. I thought we were the only ministry of its kind.<br />
I called EXIT and wanted to come. Response was, “No, it’s a closed meeting.” I called a week later, response was about the same but “we’ll see.” I called a third time, the day before and said, “I’m coming,” and the rest in history.<br />
memories Mike &#8211; A long time ago, several of us were concerned when you took your path away from Exodus and family. We located and visited you. We were invited in to your place and met your friend. I believe that was Gary.<br />
All for the moment, will be back soon.<br />
With love in Christ,<br />
Ron<br />
&lt;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18410</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18410</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Veni...Vidi...Voci. (I came...I saw...I spoke....made that last one up.)
This is just my way of letting the others on the blog know that a conversation has begun on Justin&#039;s links. ( see post: 126159) There&#039;s more on the second than the first but that&#039;s to be expected. Hope you&#039;ll drop in.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Veni&#8230;Vidi&#8230;Voci. (I came&#8230;I saw&#8230;I spoke&#8230;.made that last one up.)<br />
This is just my way of letting the others on the blog know that a conversation has begun on Justin&#8217;s links. ( see post: 126159) There&#8217;s more on the second than the first but that&#8217;s to be expected. Hope you&#8217;ll drop in.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18409</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18409</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Justin--
We&#039;ve suddenly got plenty to get started with. Let&#039;s see who drops in. I really am in a bit of a time crunch...just got back from vacation and doing errands,etc...so will check back in either tomorrow before karaoke or on Saturday.
You went to a lot of work and were unbelievably thoughtful. I sure hope the others were subscribed and will come and join. Talk to you later. Dinner is calling.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin&#8211;<br />
We&#8217;ve suddenly got plenty to get started with. Let&#8217;s see who drops in. I really am in a bit of a time crunch&#8230;just got back from vacation and doing errands,etc&#8230;so will check back in either tomorrow before karaoke or on Saturday.<br />
You went to a lot of work and were unbelievably thoughtful. I sure hope the others were subscribed and will come and join. Talk to you later. Dinner is calling.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin Lee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18408</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18408</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, obviously, the part I want to discuss isn&#039;t the introductory section I quoted above; it&#039;s the second section, which is a response to the ex-gay question.  I&#039;m still working on getting that ready to paste.
Eddy:
&lt;blockquote&gt;So, are you saying that so far it’s really just been published here?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Right, the site I linked to earlier is one I set up this morning.  It&#039;s set up to be hidden from search engines and doesn&#039;t appear in any listings.  I only created it for the purpose of discussion with you guys (and whomever else you wanted to invite) and only linked it here.  It&#039;s not a public blog or a pre-existing website.  It was just a way to take a piece of this discussion and expand it a bit into several sections.
Do you want me to go on pasting the rest of what I&#039;ve posted so far?
--Justin]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, obviously, the part I want to discuss isn&#8217;t the introductory section I quoted above; it&#8217;s the second section, which is a response to the ex-gay question.  I&#8217;m still working on getting that ready to paste.<br />
Eddy:</p>
<blockquote><p>So, are you saying that so far it’s really just been published here?</p></blockquote>
<p>Right, the site I linked to earlier is one I set up this morning.  It&#8217;s set up to be hidden from search engines and doesn&#8217;t appear in any listings.  I only created it for the purpose of discussion with you guys (and whomever else you wanted to invite) and only linked it here.  It&#8217;s not a public blog or a pre-existing website.  It was just a way to take a piece of this discussion and expand it a bit into several sections.<br />
Do you want me to go on pasting the rest of what I&#8217;ve posted so far?<br />
&#8211;Justin</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18407</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18407</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Justin-
Thanks for responding so quickly. So, are you saying that so far it&#039;s really just been published here? That could definitely work. One of my biggest concerns is that some of us would have all of this history and baggage and we&#039;d be discussing along with people who we&#039;d have to keep explaining ourselves to.
I don&#039;t recall seeing any posts for a few weeks from some of the regulars; it may take a while for the conversation to get rolling.
I&#039;ll check out the links by Saturday at the latest.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin-<br />
Thanks for responding so quickly. So, are you saying that so far it&#8217;s really just been published here? That could definitely work. One of my biggest concerns is that some of us would have all of this history and baggage and we&#8217;d be discussing along with people who we&#8217;d have to keep explaining ourselves to.<br />
I don&#8217;t recall seeing any posts for a few weeks from some of the regulars; it may take a while for the conversation to get rolling.<br />
I&#8217;ll check out the links by Saturday at the latest.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin Lee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18406</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18406</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Okay, here was the introductory post I made:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Section 1: Why This Space?&lt;/strong&gt;
Based on an ongoing conversation at Warren Throckmorton&#039;s blog, I wanted to open up a space to sort through some of my own ideas and questions on issues pertaining to ex-gays, Christianity, and homosexuality.
I am considered by many to be a leader in the gay Christian community.  As such, I am frequently asked to discuss these topics in public.  I think it&#039;s important, then, for me to be open, honest, and well-educated about the issue.  I don&#039;t want to demonize or misconstrue the views of those who disagree with me.
It seems that many ex-gays are frustrated with the current state of the public discussion on these issues as well.  I know that I find these topics frequently blow up and turn into shouting matches on other sites.  I&#039;ve been fortunate to have opportunities for open dialogue in the past, and I&#039;d like to recapture some of that.
I&#039;m going to be posting some of my thoughts here, and I welcome feedback from those whose perspective is different from my own.  Help me understand you better so that I can be fairer when I discuss this issue in public.
I cannot promise to agree.  But I can promise to listen.
--Justin&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, here was the introductory post I made:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Section 1: Why This Space?</strong><br />
Based on an ongoing conversation at Warren Throckmorton&#8217;s blog, I wanted to open up a space to sort through some of my own ideas and questions on issues pertaining to ex-gays, Christianity, and homosexuality.<br />
I am considered by many to be a leader in the gay Christian community.  As such, I am frequently asked to discuss these topics in public.  I think it&#8217;s important, then, for me to be open, honest, and well-educated about the issue.  I don&#8217;t want to demonize or misconstrue the views of those who disagree with me.<br />
It seems that many ex-gays are frustrated with the current state of the public discussion on these issues as well.  I know that I find these topics frequently blow up and turn into shouting matches on other sites.  I&#8217;ve been fortunate to have opportunities for open dialogue in the past, and I&#8217;d like to recapture some of that.<br />
I&#8217;m going to be posting some of my thoughts here, and I welcome feedback from those whose perspective is different from my own.  Help me understand you better so that I can be fairer when I discuss this issue in public.<br />
I cannot promise to agree.  But I can promise to listen.<br />
&#8211;Justin</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Justin Lee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eddy said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t believe that this was your intent but, in effect, it seems you are asking us to leave our conversation here to go and have it over at your place. One of the reasons this conversation ended rather abruptly is that a number of us were awaiting your promised comments. Now, it appears we have to go someplace else to get them and discuss them. That isn’t sitting well with me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Oh dear!  That wasn&#039;t my goal at all!  I&#039;m more than happy to have the conversation here.
The primary reason I posted the comments on the other site was because you had said that you didn&#039;t think this was the best place for them, since this thread was &quot;tainted&quot; and likely didn&#039;t have many people still following it.  I didn&#039;t want to post them on my (pro-gay) site, since that wouldn&#039;t be fair to you, so this morning I took some time and set up a new, entirely private blog just for this conversation.  My intent was to only link it here, so that only you guys would have access to it, and then you could invite any others you wanted without forcing them to wade through the negative stuff earlier in this thread.
Also, at the time when I first suggested that I would post some thoughts, they were just a few sketchy ideas in my head.  Over the last few weeks I&#039;ve been fleshing them out more, to the point that they&#039;re now quite a few pages long.  So I decided to break them down and take them one bit at a time, which seemed easier to do in a fresh space with separate links for each section.
I did it that way, thinking it would be easier on you, not harder, and that it would create a friendlier, more neutral environment for you.  I had no idea I was breaching protocol by doing so.  Please accept my apologies; give me a few minutes to re-do the HTML code and I&#039;ll paste the first section into my next comment.
--Justin]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eddy said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t believe that this was your intent but, in effect, it seems you are asking us to leave our conversation here to go and have it over at your place. One of the reasons this conversation ended rather abruptly is that a number of us were awaiting your promised comments. Now, it appears we have to go someplace else to get them and discuss them. That isn’t sitting well with me.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh dear!  That wasn&#8217;t my goal at all!  I&#8217;m more than happy to have the conversation here.<br />
The primary reason I posted the comments on the other site was because you had said that you didn&#8217;t think this was the best place for them, since this thread was &#8220;tainted&#8221; and likely didn&#8217;t have many people still following it.  I didn&#8217;t want to post them on my (pro-gay) site, since that wouldn&#8217;t be fair to you, so this morning I took some time and set up a new, entirely private blog just for this conversation.  My intent was to only link it here, so that only you guys would have access to it, and then you could invite any others you wanted without forcing them to wade through the negative stuff earlier in this thread.<br />
Also, at the time when I first suggested that I would post some thoughts, they were just a few sketchy ideas in my head.  Over the last few weeks I&#8217;ve been fleshing them out more, to the point that they&#8217;re now quite a few pages long.  So I decided to break them down and take them one bit at a time, which seemed easier to do in a fresh space with separate links for each section.<br />
I did it that way, thinking it would be easier on you, not harder, and that it would create a friendlier, more neutral environment for you.  I had no idea I was breaching protocol by doing so.  Please accept my apologies; give me a few minutes to re-do the HTML code and I&#8217;ll paste the first section into my next comment.<br />
&#8211;Justin</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/07/17/exodus-international-open-forum/#comment-18404</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//?p=961#comment-18404</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the links Justin. It is ok by me to discuss either place but I think we could have some cross fertilization.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links Justin. It is ok by me to discuss either place but I think we could have some cross fertilization.</p>
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