Comments on: Wayne Besen links rape and the ex-gay movement

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Thu, 15 May 2008 14:28:24 +0000

Mary Alan Chambers is the head of EXODUS. As such, he has the responsibility to LEAD — which means calling Black on the carpet when he needs it. Otherwise, it makes EXODUS look worse than it already is. SILENCE IMPIES CONSENT.

By: Warren

Warren — Wed, 14 May 2008 03:44:34 +0000

Pam – You gave me a good laugh with your comment.

By: Mary

Mary — Wed, 14 May 2008 02:13:13 +0000

Why not challenge Black to issue a statment since he is the one making it?

By: Mary

Mary — Tue, 13 May 2008 22:17:41 +0000

Geez Michael and et al,
Wayne knows exactly what he did in posting a provocative title to his writing. That he goes on to say that EXODUS and such groups would not support such a thing totally – again – overlooks the real issue – girls being raped (by any other name ) is still rape. Men and boys have called it many things – whatever – that girl woman needed to learn a lesson (power, control, violence against a whole gender.) It is the abuse of girls that is being overlooked and Besen spun it to his advantage and now cries foul?

By: pam ferguson

pam ferguson — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:46:29 +0000

I didn’t realize that Stephen Black had “called out” XGW like that. What a deal. The guy has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about. His cozying up to Kern and then spouting off statements like that discredits anything else he might say as far as I’m concerned.
I rarely read Wayne’s stuff either. It’s not that I don’t agree with some of the points he makes (as I’ve stated here), it’s just that when someone speaks with that sort of verbage it’s the ultimate red flag .
For me, to try and engage meaningfully with people (like Besen or Black) who communicate in those terms is, as they say, like mud wrestling a pig. We both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

By: Warren

Warren — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:33:56 +0000

Sorry, Michael, I meant the tone of Peterson’s post.

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:28:21 +0000

Warren has pointed out to me that my last comment was uncalled for: “Trouble is, Alan doesn’t have the strength of character to do it.”
I take it back. Maybe he does. We shall see.

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:08:15 +0000

OK I read it. I agree with Toscano that what Wayne was was doing was citing yet another horrific example of some of the abuses that have been done in the name of “fixing” gays. As I have said, I personally would not have chosen the title and I wish Wayne had not done so. I think it was wrong to call it part of the “Ex-gay Movement” — to even imply or give the impression that the “Ex-gay Movement” would ever approve of such evil.
And, I do not think that Wayne was accusing EXODUS of doing this or endorsing this. In fact, I think he made that pretty clear that he was NOT.
I would not have chosen the same title because it is inflammatory and seems to imply that EXODUS or the “Ex-gay Movement” was somehow responsible.. That is not “winking at it” — at least not on my part. But abuses have been committed in the name of “fixing gays” and these need to be exposed.
I would have titled the piece “Rape of African Girls: Yet Another Example Of The Horrific Abuses Committed In The Name Of Reparing Gays”. That would have been both fair and accurate.

By: Michael Bussee

Michael Bussee — Tue, 13 May 2008 18:54:06 +0000

Warren: LOW BLOW! You are WAY out of line in suggesting that that “as long as it is for the cause, you can use provocative titles and language, and it is fine.” It is NOT “fine” and I strongly resent you accusing me of it.
I have not yet read Peterson/s comments, but I will — and if I feel they are out of line I will say so OPENLY AND CLEARLY. But I am just a private citizen, not a member or leader of any organization. I have no official title or authority. Alan Chambers, on the other hand, will not censure leaders of the organization of which he is President.

By: Warren

Warren — Tue, 13 May 2008 18:37:23 +0000

And Michael, why are you not over at Peterson Toscano's blog taking him to task for winking at Wayne's provocative title? As long as it is for the cause, you can use provocative titles and language, and it is fine.