I know our online “relationship” is a terrible one, and this might be the worst possible time to say something like this in the midst of our snarky posts – but whether you believe it or not I have learned many things from you – about ex-gay issues and about myself – some of it has been very humbling, but it has been good. I’m not gonna pretend that we’re going to ever have a good online relationship, I’ve sort of given up on that, but for what its worth (and in your eyes that may be little – and I’d understand that) you have enlightened me. 🙂 In fact, there are only a few people on here that I haven’t learned something positive or worthwhile from. I’m opinionated, sometimes too set in my ways, but am painfully aware I am far from being perfect, and that there is always room for improvement.

Can’t play anymore right now. Perhaps I’ll come back when there are people discussing.

Oh Eddy I knew who you were referring to

So then, the purpose of your statement was…….hmmm, let’s consider the possibilities.

Don’t flatter me by suggesting I’ve enlightened you; I’ve accepted that as an impossible task and I know my limitations.

Re ‘therapize”….I believe you were the scoundrel.

Re your attempts at zingers….they’re coming across rather weak…especially since I just cited an occasion in a previous post (the one about Alan’s thread on XGW) where I did support Michael. Shall I link it or quote it for you or can you find your way there? I’m not sure you blogged in that thread but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Things that you don’t personally experience often still exist on another plane.

And that, Eddy, is MY biggest chuckle of the day 🙂

Naturally, Jayhuck was there to jump in saying “that Eddy likes to blame others”. Considering the source, that was my best chuckle of the day. (BTW: Jayhuck, even though I like the name “Jay”–it’s my middle name–I refer to you as Jayhuck because you do. In a later post, you referred to me as “Ed”; it was probably just a slip, but please let’s stick with “Eddy”.)

On occasion, I continue to challenge Michael especially when he’s pointing out the inconsistencies in other people’s words because, as Concerned pointed out, Michael wasn’t exactly the model of consistency. He was already married to a woman while Exodus was still trying to figure out what it wanted to be. He was one of the founders, one of the leaders. It would seem that at least some of the notions he blames Exodus for were notions he adopted prior to Exodus’ influence. To top that off, and I’m not revealing any secrets here, that while a leader and while a married man, he began his relationship with Gary…I can’t seem to get the timeline nailed down. But it doesn’t seem that he left either the ministry or the marriage right away. This suggests he was leading a ‘double life’ and was capable, for a time at least, of deceiving Exodus, Exit and his wife.

If he and Gary had put their budding relationship on hold until they found a way to step out of the ministry and Michael’s marriage (I don’t remember if Gary was married or not.) then I’d trust him a bit more.

Finally, consider all the posts recently that we had where we wanted to question or ‘therapize’ those with unwanted SSA…justifying this because they might have come to this conclusion out of weakness or a response to church or societal pressure. If we can see that potential for a person to be self-deceived, why don’t we recognize that getting saved, baptized in the Holy Spirit, getting married, becoming a minister, having a child, embarking on a relationship with a fellow minister, –and then leaving all but the latter all in the course of a few years–why can’t we acknowledge that those circumstances would or could cloud a man’s perceptions?

These are two separate issues and they are being combined. As a public figure representating an organization, Alan can refer to himself anyway he wants as long as his representation has integrity with how he lives. As to what Exodus can deliver to each person and their individual set of circumstances is a whole different issue – and one that should be articulated in the most cautionary manner. I think probably the most important thing to realize for their members (not sure if this is the correct term) is that SSA does not have to equate to same gender sexual relationships if the person doesn’t want them to. Their story can and will unfold from there.

Michael,

Mentioning his name and putting responsibility on him as the leader of Exodus is all very fair – resorting to how he defines himself and being sarcastic about it at his expense is not only irresponsible but diminishes the very important things you want to say.

Remember, when you said in another post on this thread in referring to what Alan/Exodus should do – “it is the Christian thing to do”? I responded by saying “God has provided everyone with the ability to do the right thing – I don’t think it is exclusively “the Christian thing to do”. Being cognizent of doing the right thing, regardless if the other person is or not, is indeed impressive and does not need a label or word or term – it just speaks for itself and people will notice.