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	<title>
	Comments on: Homosexuality 101 has some space	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:05:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The &quot;bad dad&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&quot; theory&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; is often touted by conversion therapists as &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;fact&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;.  This is a common fallacy of logic known as the  &quot;reification fallacy&quot;: when &quot;people treat an abstract belief or hypothetical construct as if it represented a concrete event or physical entity.&quot;



We need to keep in mind that theories are &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;maps&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, not the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;territory&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;.  Theories are ideas, not facts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;bad dad<em><strong>&#8221; theory</strong></em> is often touted by conversion therapists as <em><strong>fact</strong></em>.  This is a common fallacy of logic known as the  &#8220;reification fallacy&#8221;: when &#8220;people treat an abstract belief or hypothetical construct as if it represented a concrete event or physical entity.&#8221;</p>
<p>We need to keep in mind that theories are <em><strong>maps</strong></em>, not the <em><strong>territory</strong></em>.  Theories are ideas, not facts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dr. Caillean McMahon		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Caillean McMahon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dr. Throckmorton;

    Thank you, Sir, for being a rational, gentlemanly and academically honest voice in the midst ot the tawdry verbal and written brawl that is so often the nature of any discussion concerning the nature of sexual orientation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Throckmorton;</p>
<p>    Thank you, Sir, for being a rational, gentlemanly and academically honest voice in the midst ot the tawdry verbal and written brawl that is so often the nature of any discussion concerning the nature of sexual orientation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Evan - You ask many of the questions and advance counter arguments that I have advanced for the last 4+ years with no sustained response from reparative drive therapists.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan &#8211; You ask many of the questions and advance counter arguments that I have advanced for the last 4+ years with no sustained response from reparative drive therapists.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Evan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 03:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Failure to become integrated in one&#039;s gender circle can lead to some feelings of estrangement, resentment or even attraction, even if we follow a moderate theoretical approach such as Bem&#039;s. But singling this out as a cause goes against much of the empirical research that did not find this to be a predictor. You can find many cases of people who did not connect much with dad and did not end up being gay. I lived in a Communist country when I was a child and I remember most of the parents in my neighbourhood were not so involved in their children&#039;s upbringing or pastime. In fact, the typical day for a child was going to kindergarten or school, coming home and going outside to play with the other children until parents returned from their jobs. Most typically, moms returned first, whereas dads always came later. There was not so much attention and care for children&#039;s feelings or needs that you probably are familiar with from your developed country childhood experience. Of course, parents loved their children too, but in a morally and materially squalid society, attention to child development was precarious. So it was very often that you could see mothers to be most involved in domestic chores and child rearing. Which of course did not turn out more gays; in fact, I don&#039;t even know one from that neighbourhood to be gay today. But I do know a couple of &quot;mummy&#039;s boys&quot; who are relaxedly straight today.



I think there is some relevance to how a boy manages to build some bridges to his gender peers via his relationship with his father, but this is just a step in a larger picture, and it is not self-evident that it is absolutely necessary at that. One may not have a good father-son relationship, but have a great connection with one&#039;s gender peers. I know people who were very rebellious towards both parents and were mostly influenced by their peers. Today they are husbands, have children and are your regular blokes you can see in a pub. So this may have some relevance, but it doesn&#039;t amount to much evidence that it has sufficient generality to be a predictor of later sexual feelings. Maybe the picture is more complicated than that and it should be judged in conjunction with other factors, like power relations between parents, but even this track has been investigated and failed to find some evidence. I remember Virginia Abernethy&#039;s research in the 80s about gender dominance and reproduction in higher primates, and its role in the development of sexual orientation, did not eventually garner support in the scientific community. It&#039;s a thesis that still holds some appeal to me, but no one made a credible case for that until now.



What all theoretical accounts must explain and still fail to do so is how necessary every stage of development is in the formation of sexual feelings. Why is childhood a critical age for establishing the right connections for future gender identification and sexual feelings? Is it empirically proved that it must necessarily be so and to what degree? Could someone reverse the socialising patterns and get an opposite effect in attractions even to a certain significant degree? Does it have to have some specific genetic components to be able to develop a type of attractions or it can work only by socialising patterns in some people? Are homosexual men unable to be attracted and aroused by any woman and if they are able, what does that say about exotic becoming erotic if their childhood was gender nonconforming and mostly spent around girls? All these questions and a host of others I have in mind are very interesting theoretically and very relevant to many people&#039;s lives, but they are not addressed by research as yet. Going on with the same story of father and son doesn&#039;t bring much light into this field and in some people&#039;s lives.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Failure to become integrated in one&#8217;s gender circle can lead to some feelings of estrangement, resentment or even attraction, even if we follow a moderate theoretical approach such as Bem&#8217;s. But singling this out as a cause goes against much of the empirical research that did not find this to be a predictor. You can find many cases of people who did not connect much with dad and did not end up being gay. I lived in a Communist country when I was a child and I remember most of the parents in my neighbourhood were not so involved in their children&#8217;s upbringing or pastime. In fact, the typical day for a child was going to kindergarten or school, coming home and going outside to play with the other children until parents returned from their jobs. Most typically, moms returned first, whereas dads always came later. There was not so much attention and care for children&#8217;s feelings or needs that you probably are familiar with from your developed country childhood experience. Of course, parents loved their children too, but in a morally and materially squalid society, attention to child development was precarious. So it was very often that you could see mothers to be most involved in domestic chores and child rearing. Which of course did not turn out more gays; in fact, I don&#8217;t even know one from that neighbourhood to be gay today. But I do know a couple of &#8220;mummy&#8217;s boys&#8221; who are relaxedly straight today.</p>
<p>I think there is some relevance to how a boy manages to build some bridges to his gender peers via his relationship with his father, but this is just a step in a larger picture, and it is not self-evident that it is absolutely necessary at that. One may not have a good father-son relationship, but have a great connection with one&#8217;s gender peers. I know people who were very rebellious towards both parents and were mostly influenced by their peers. Today they are husbands, have children and are your regular blokes you can see in a pub. So this may have some relevance, but it doesn&#8217;t amount to much evidence that it has sufficient generality to be a predictor of later sexual feelings. Maybe the picture is more complicated than that and it should be judged in conjunction with other factors, like power relations between parents, but even this track has been investigated and failed to find some evidence. I remember Virginia Abernethy&#8217;s research in the 80s about gender dominance and reproduction in higher primates, and its role in the development of sexual orientation, did not eventually garner support in the scientific community. It&#8217;s a thesis that still holds some appeal to me, but no one made a credible case for that until now.</p>
<p>What all theoretical accounts must explain and still fail to do so is how necessary every stage of development is in the formation of sexual feelings. Why is childhood a critical age for establishing the right connections for future gender identification and sexual feelings? Is it empirically proved that it must necessarily be so and to what degree? Could someone reverse the socialising patterns and get an opposite effect in attractions even to a certain significant degree? Does it have to have some specific genetic components to be able to develop a type of attractions or it can work only by socialising patterns in some people? Are homosexual men unable to be attracted and aroused by any woman and if they are able, what does that say about exotic becoming erotic if their childhood was gender nonconforming and mostly spent around girls? All these questions and a host of others I have in mind are very interesting theoretically and very relevant to many people&#8217;s lives, but they are not addressed by research as yet. Going on with the same story of father and son doesn&#8217;t bring much light into this field and in some people&#8217;s lives.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 20:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2008/01/30/homosexuality-101-has-some-space/#comment-69180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;As my attitude towards my father and masculinity in general becomes healthier my feelings about my attractions has changed. &lt;/em&gt;



Concerned,



This makes perfect sense to me and I am glad you shared it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>As my attitude towards my father and masculinity in general becomes healthier my feelings about my attractions has changed. </em></p>
<p>Concerned,</p>
<p>This makes perfect sense to me and I am glad you shared it.</p>
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