The two examples you cite (health and rape) are certainly justification for saving the emotional and physical life of the woman over the continuation of a pregnancy. A very difficult decision yet one that I feel is valid when faced with the circumstances you illustrated.

Can you show how the people of Baghdad were guilty of anything yet we bombed them! Not Saddam but the ordinary people of Baghdad.Did you cry out for them?So being innocent does not help in the argument against killing does it?

The Christian churches have always made a distinction between fetuses and children. Only children were baptized in the early church Even today many ministers refuse to baptize fetuses. Even the state does not pursue criminal charges when fetuses are identified.You get around the issue by calling then children Try registering a fetus at a kinder garden and you will find most people do not consider them children. Everything that is alive is not a person.

I can no more explain when a person emerges from the combination of the egg and the sperm than anyone can but that does not make the mess that becomes a person also a person,just as the plant is not the flower neither is the fetus the person.

You seem to imply that we can kill after we decide that someone should be killed.(Not just prison time but actually killing just like stoning in biblical times)Seems like very Divine Power there. Sitting in God’s seat seems to make you comfortable. I don’t question the crime but the punishment.If it meets our standards we kill.right!

I do not think we should judge the moral behavior of others. Courts say you are guilty before the Law not morally guilty. Courts say we are guilty before Man’s laws not before God’s Laws.”Forgive us as we forgive” is how Jesus taught us to pray.”Judge not that Ye shall not be judged” was his admonition.Follow the word of Jesus if you would be Christian.

Sincerely Andy.

I was commenting on Joseph’s statement that “abortion is always murder,” and that because it is murder, it should not be considered. I would argue that Capitol Punishment – guilty or not, is also always murder. Whether or not one believes it is justifiable is a completely different matter – it is the taking of another life intentionally, without question. So, your question as to whether a baby is “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt,” is really quite irrelevant.

You also state: “Perhaps you can explain why you think we shouldn’t judge. And then, why do we have judges?”

“judge not lest ye be judged” – I let the judging up to God. I feel I have enough judging to do by looking inward and improving myself. As an ordinary citizen (not in the judicial field) it seems a waste of energy. I try the radical notion of leaving the judging to higher authorities than myself. I try looking inward as a first measure and usually find plenty of work to do…try it, I’m sure you’ll find the same.

The last thing you asked:

“With regards to the different stages of development in a living human, if not at conception, where does a human non-person become a human person? If through birth, can you explain how this takes place?”

Personally, I think that if it came down to me in my 2nd trimester (with a child inutero), and I was going to die because of the effects of the pregnancy, I would have a difficult choice. But forcing women to give up their life seems wrong to me. Not allowing women to be internally cleansed immediately after a rape seems wrong to me also. Although, according to you, it is a possible life-in-progress.

I never argued when “life” begins – because you and I both do not know anything about when a soul occurs and there is no scientifically verifiable way to examine that. I just stated that this argument isn’t easy and that many individuals are inconsistent. If life does indeed begin at conception, then using birth control should also be outlawed – since it is, essentially, preventing the possible creation of life. I am not Catholic, and this is not my particular belief, but I hope others are consistent on this.

I find people tend to be consistent when it doesn’t interfere in the norms of their own behaviors. Doing without birth control might just be a tad to inconvenient for consistency.