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	Comments on: More on God and Hillary Clinton: Interview with historian Paul Kengor	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2018 13:35:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: jh		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-72424</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2018 13:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-72424</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65301&quot;&gt;jag&lt;/a&gt;.

For me, it just comes down to bodily autonomy.  I don&#039;t have the right to use another person&#039;s body against their will. That&#039;s called rape.  I don&#039;t have the right to demand even a drop of blood from somebody, not even my mother.  That&#039;s theft.  So how does a fetus/pro-human being get that right?

Before we start granting rights to unborn, we need to ensure that the born retain their rights. When balancing the two, I recognize a woman as a human being with rights to her body because anything less would mean that I&#039;m on the side of rapists and slavers.  It&#039;s just that simple for me. 

What I want is for there to be some way to implant embryos into men against their will (naturally).  Then, we can use all the arguments that the &quot;pro-live&quot; group uses against them.  Watch how quickly they will go &quot;My body, my choice&quot;.  

At the end of the day, I have no skin in the game.  When I risk my life and my body, or when the risk is even possible, that&#039;s the day that I get a real voice in the abortion debate.  And if any gods want to interject, they better send down a few stone tablets, possibly parting a sea or two, sending a global vision.. you know, god like things rather than using stupid apes.

(I understand why religious people would have a problem.  At least the abrahamic religions are predicated on two very toxic ideas: 1.  women are property  2.  believe the unbelievable.  Point one is quite obvious and one only has to read several verses in both OT and NT to understand that the entire concept of the authors in the Bible was women are chattel property.  Point 2 is less direct. But, it goes simply like this.  If a religion can make you believe an imaginary creature exists, is it so hard to believe that an imaginary baby exists?  Hell, they even have ultrasounds so there&#039;s more proof for that fetus than there is for their God.  But then, you go back to that moral question - Do you have the right to use another person&#039;s body against their will?  Does any human being have that right?  The logical conclusion is either - Yes, I&#039;m a rapist or No, I&#039;m not a rapist.  There is no partial rape scenario that is possible.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65301">jag</a>.</p>
<p>For me, it just comes down to bodily autonomy.  I don&#8217;t have the right to use another person&#8217;s body against their will. That&#8217;s called rape.  I don&#8217;t have the right to demand even a drop of blood from somebody, not even my mother.  That&#8217;s theft.  So how does a fetus/pro-human being get that right?</p>
<p>Before we start granting rights to unborn, we need to ensure that the born retain their rights. When balancing the two, I recognize a woman as a human being with rights to her body because anything less would mean that I&#8217;m on the side of rapists and slavers.  It&#8217;s just that simple for me. </p>
<p>What I want is for there to be some way to implant embryos into men against their will (naturally).  Then, we can use all the arguments that the &#8220;pro-live&#8221; group uses against them.  Watch how quickly they will go &#8220;My body, my choice&#8221;.  </p>
<p>At the end of the day, I have no skin in the game.  When I risk my life and my body, or when the risk is even possible, that&#8217;s the day that I get a real voice in the abortion debate.  And if any gods want to interject, they better send down a few stone tablets, possibly parting a sea or two, sending a global vision.. you know, god like things rather than using stupid apes.</p>
<p>(I understand why religious people would have a problem.  At least the abrahamic religions are predicated on two very toxic ideas: 1.  women are property  2.  believe the unbelievable.  Point one is quite obvious and one only has to read several verses in both OT and NT to understand that the entire concept of the authors in the Bible was women are chattel property.  Point 2 is less direct. But, it goes simply like this.  If a religion can make you believe an imaginary creature exists, is it so hard to believe that an imaginary baby exists?  Hell, they even have ultrasounds so there&#8217;s more proof for that fetus than there is for their God.  But then, you go back to that moral question &#8211; Do you have the right to use another person&#8217;s body against their will?  Does any human being have that right?  The logical conclusion is either &#8211; Yes, I&#8217;m a rapist or No, I&#8217;m not a rapist.  There is no partial rape scenario that is possible.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: jag		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65301</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65301</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Corakta -



You stated:



&quot;If the unborn child is at an earlier step in his or her gestational life, then it’s suddenly okay becuase she or he doesn’t look so much like a baby? He or she becomes no more human during that time–they just mature.&quot;



That&#039;s a little illogical, don&#039;t you think? For example, there is a point immediately after sex where you have no idea if a &quot;life&quot; will begin development or not. For example, a woman is raped and goes to the emergency room. Is she not having an &quot;abortion&quot; according to you? It is according to many.



If so, you are preventing a potential life everytime you use protection during sex. We should outlaw birth control pills (prevent a life from taking place), condoms, etc. It would be a logical extention of your thoughts.



I think the cases on both sides are often exaggerated with little reality coming in. The woman whose child is aborted late-term because the life of the mother is at stake, etc..



These are tough issues to grapple with. I cannot pretend to know the correct answers to things like this...but I do think they should be at the discretion of the family, and most importantly, the women carrying the child.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corakta &#8211;</p>
<p>You stated:</p>
<p>&#8220;If the unborn child is at an earlier step in his or her gestational life, then it’s suddenly okay becuase she or he doesn’t look so much like a baby? He or she becomes no more human during that time–they just mature.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a little illogical, don&#8217;t you think? For example, there is a point immediately after sex where you have no idea if a &#8220;life&#8221; will begin development or not. For example, a woman is raped and goes to the emergency room. Is she not having an &#8220;abortion&#8221; according to you? It is according to many.</p>
<p>If so, you are preventing a potential life everytime you use protection during sex. We should outlaw birth control pills (prevent a life from taking place), condoms, etc. It would be a logical extention of your thoughts.</p>
<p>I think the cases on both sides are often exaggerated with little reality coming in. The woman whose child is aborted late-term because the life of the mother is at stake, etc..</p>
<p>These are tough issues to grapple with. I cannot pretend to know the correct answers to things like this&#8230;but I do think they should be at the discretion of the family, and most importantly, the women carrying the child.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ricky		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ricky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sherri, The real prison is living with all that inside of you. Feeling forgiven is healing because it liberates your spirit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sherri, The real prison is living with all that inside of you. Feeling forgiven is healing because it liberates your spirit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65299</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65299</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sherri,



Because you believe that you have done great evil and probably should be imprisoned or executed, can I suggest a compromise.  Perhaps you can dedicate your life to feeding the hungry.



I am absolutely certain that there are plenty of people who would greatly benefit from all of your time and it would be as easy as calling a food bank.  Even if you don&#039;t have great financial ability to help, think of all the good you could do by sorting or cooking or serving.  It might go a long way towards helping you feel less guilty and more forgiven.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sherri,</p>
<p>Because you believe that you have done great evil and probably should be imprisoned or executed, can I suggest a compromise.  Perhaps you can dedicate your life to feeding the hungry.</p>
<p>I am absolutely certain that there are plenty of people who would greatly benefit from all of your time and it would be as easy as calling a food bank.  Even if you don&#8217;t have great financial ability to help, think of all the good you could do by sorting or cooking or serving.  It might go a long way towards helping you feel less guilty and more forgiven.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65298</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 03:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/26/more-on-god-and-hillary-clinton-interview-with-historian-paul-kengor/#comment-65298</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sherri,



It is when you acknowledge what you believe you have done wrong that you are graced with forgiveness.  We have all done things that are wrong and if we didn&#039;t have the belief that we can be forgiven, then we have nothing.  Dr. Throckmorton is right - all sin is forgiven - that is what Jesus came to earth and died for.  There is a wonderful book called &quot;Tilly&quot; that I want to recommend to you.  Please let me know if you read it and what you think.  You do not have to be imprisoned for life - you can begin anew right now and know you are completely forgiven.  I am thinking of you tonight and your name will be said in my prayers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sherri,</p>
<p>It is when you acknowledge what you believe you have done wrong that you are graced with forgiveness.  We have all done things that are wrong and if we didn&#8217;t have the belief that we can be forgiven, then we have nothing.  Dr. Throckmorton is right &#8211; all sin is forgiven &#8211; that is what Jesus came to earth and died for.  There is a wonderful book called &#8220;Tilly&#8221; that I want to recommend to you.  Please let me know if you read it and what you think.  You do not have to be imprisoned for life &#8211; you can begin anew right now and know you are completely forgiven.  I am thinking of you tonight and your name will be said in my prayers.</p>
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