Comments on: Comment on reactions to the Jones and Yarhouse study https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/ A [retired] college psychology professor's observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:52:12 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.3 By: Mary https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65164 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:52:12 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65164 Jag,

But a genetic predispostion does not mean unalterable attractions. I have a genetic predisposition to longevity but that can be altered by bad habits. Habits I enjoy and of my choosing. It can also be altered by a personality trait to be rebellious and not wear a seatbelt (which has been proven to save lives)

In the J&Y book they talk about two different ideas of homosexuality 1) Essentialist and 2) Constructionist

If you have the book maybe a discussion of these terms and definitions will help clarify some of the different views people hold about homosexuality. I personally do believe that it is in part genetic (having more to do with personality traits, needs etc…) and part environment (having to do with our response to our surroundings etc..) Sort of a lot of mxiture of things going on. I would fall into the constructionist view more so.

]]> By: jag https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65163 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:18:44 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65163 Concerned –

You state:

“The other problem I have with your interpretation of sexual orientation being fixed is that it is not so black and white as some would have us believe.”

I never said it was fixed. Please do not misrepresent my views. I did say there was likely a genetic predisposition, etc…which makes it difficult to alter.

]]> By: jayhuck https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65162 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:57:50 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65162 David,

Here’s to hoping that God’s delicious and perfect timing will spur on more legitimate and less-biased research. That is definitely something to hope and pray for, and would make all of this worth it.

]]> By: David Roberts https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65161 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:43:26 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65161 Karen said:

That would be God’s delicious and perfect timing.

Assuming of course that you happen to be correct about just what God thinks about all of this. In any event, I don’t see this study making a very big different other than perhaps to spur on more legitimate research. Who knows, that might even have been worth more than if their research had been more significant.

(and yes Karen, I’ve read it – had my copy in hand on 9/13)

]]> By: Mary https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65160 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 02:51:56 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65160 Yeah Karen. Good point. Me personally would stay far away from EXODUS because of their lack of guidelines on “therapuetic” support for the individual. I don’t think I would call it psychotherapy. Warren? Jag? Thoughts?

]]> By: Eddy https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65159 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:29:51 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65159 Jamie–

The research was only with Exodus affiliates. Some of them are familiar with Warren’s SIT framework but I don’t believe anyone is using it yet as their counseling/therapy model. One important distinction is that Exodus would require a ‘personal relationship with Jesus Christ’ and a ‘personal conviction that homosexuality is sinful’ in order to continue in its therapies; SIT makes no such demands. (With SIT, you could actually freely examine your beliefs in Jesus Christ and/or your beliefs re homosexuality being sinful without fear of reproach.) I’m guessing that SIT doesn’t have enough of a history (or practitioners) yet to be a viable resource for research studies.

]]> By: Jamie Sartre https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65158 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:11:09 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65158 Okay this discussion has started to cover all angles of the debate almost and now it’s kinda back to where we started. That is, what this ‘change therapy’ can do, is it successful and any ‘side effects’ etc.

Though I’m curious how this all fit in with what Dr. Throckmorton is doing? Would Warren agree with all the methods used on the individuals in the study?

Because it’s not like this study was research into Warren’s SIT framework, or was it??

Can anyone clarify, maybe I’ve missed a post somewhere where it might have been mentioned.

]]> By: Eddy https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65157 Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:11:30 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65157 Timothy–

I’m in 98% agreement with your assessment of Exodus…and I won’t quibble with you about the 2%! (I’m feeling generous–and the disagreements were minor!)

Karen–

Excellent point about the use of the word ‘psychotherapy’ in the ‘About the book’ link on the IVP webpage. Now that you’ve brought it up, it puzzles/troubles me too.

Warren, JAG, other professionals: Does ‘psychotherapy’ have a precise meaning that would make it an inaccurate word to use for Exodus-style support and counsel?

]]> By: Concerned https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65156 Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:49:32 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65156 JAG,

The other problem I have with your interpretation of sexual orientation being fixed is that it is not so black and white as some would have us believe. As has been discussed here in the passed there may be many levels of attraction to the opposite or same sex, therefore, if there is some flexibility, then it is not fair for someone on one side of this issue to dictate how those in between should live their live. I know you will jump on the ex-gays for doing this, but my own experience is that pro-gays have been very vocal in this area as well. I do not know how many times I have read that you are either gay or straight there is no inbetween. Not so!

]]> By: Mary https://wthrockmorton.com/2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65155 Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:18:17 +0000 https://www.wthrockmorton.com//2007/09/21/comment-on-reactions-to-the-jones-and-yarhouse-study/#comment-65155 I don’t chase comments throughout other blogs so if you want then reference and link.

Rare – yes, but it is not up to you to leave out that information when dealing with a client. Niether you nor I knows what makes a red dot red. And we should not dismiss the discussion of such – even if it is rare – it is never insignificant or not worth the effort for someone to discover their “true” color.

Gays are a small portion of the total population. Ex gays are even smaller.

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