I’m totally in agreement with you on posts 45320 and 21! The two factors: the fact that they are often without support and that their bullying is more severe does beg for special consideration when addressing bullying in the schools.

I don’t really have much to add. I just thought it would be fun and unique to sincerely say “Jayhuck, I’m totally in agreement with you”. I couldn’t let this opportunity pass me by.

For me, its often the severity of the cruelty that often differentiates minority groups like gays or blacks from the rest.

Thanks for the explanation – that makes sense!!!

I think the problem with taking the focus off gay kids, or just gay people in discussions like this – and please correct me if I’m wrong – is that often the politically motivated religious right will try to minimize the suffering that often happens in the gay community so as to squelch sympathy for gay people – it does happen. I’m absolutely NOT saying that is what is going on here. I truly believe that almost everyone on this blog cares about gay AND straight people. But, the fact remains that people will do this. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be honest about the facts when they are being skewed.

Its also important to remember that while all groups suffer similar types of things, in minority groups, like black or gay people, the harassment or abuse is often more severe than it is for say straight or white people. I think that’s pretty evident when you look at how these groups are treated. You don’t often see people being killed for being white or straight or smart/geeky, but you do often see people being killed for being black or gay – or both for that matter.

The appeal of momentary ‘glory’ and the notion of ‘being remembered forever for what I did’ can be the final factors that take a person from just ‘thinking about suicide’ into taking action. Granted, this type of thinking seems to have a bigger hook in troubled straight kids than gays but that also is consistent with Mary’s point that suicide among ALL teens continues to be a serious problem. (Sorry, some of us who blog here are concerned about a number of issues impacting our world. When we can and where we can, we try to gain a bit more understanding. Apologies to those who are offended that we care about the straight kids too.)

The incidence of all teen suicides has become visible enough that even pop music–on the everyday radio–has actually addressed suicide. For the life of me, I can’t remember the name of Billy Joel’s song. The other song, Runaway Train, I heard just before dropping off last night.

From the CDC

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/dvp/Suicide/SuicideDataSheet.pdf

A source that actually mentions homosexuality (however if the previous indicators are being taken care of this one should be too)

http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/suicide.html

It just does not give the stats.. ???

http://www.suicidology.org/associations/1045/files/Depression.pdf

What urban-myth are you talking about??? I don’t know that we’ve shown anything to be a myth, have we?

And as Timothy points out, youth today are different than the youth being measured and observed ten years ago – A LOT has changed. I hope the urban myths are demystified and made clear for the sake of those youth with other risk factors who are on the margin today.

Jayhuck, as best I can tell Savin-Williams is the sole voice questioning the notion that same-sex attracted kids have increased incidences of suicide. And it is not quite fair to say that he disagrees.

His argues that studies were exagerated 20 years ago and that currently it is “far from accurate”. This seems to be an outcropping of his view of the state of self-acceptance and societal support for gay teens.

Frankly, I think (from much else he writes) that Savin-Williams sees one subset of gay youth (out, confident, urban, liberal, supported) and extrapolates this subset to apply to the kid in rural Mississippi. I certainly don’t have his credentials, but intuitively I don’t place a lot of confidence in his proclamations.

He also seems to think that currently kids don’t see themselves as being gay or straight and that they avoid labels, which seems counter to all that I have heard and read about current youth (often in their own voice or hand). I am acquainted with a number of LGBT kids who were the right age for his studies and I’ve yet to meet one who fits his Gay Teenager profile.

I think guys my age “didn’t like labels” right before we “think I might be a little bisexual” which was followed by “ok I might like guys but it’s a phase and I really might like girls some, I mean really maybe” and finally “yeah, I’m gay”. As best I can tell, based purely on anecdotal evidence, youth today are much quicker to identify their sexuality and confidently assign theirself as gay than they were in my youth.

But as for suicide, Savin-Williams may be right. It may not be as high as the studies report.