You ask some very difficult questions in your above post, and I am so sorry that you have felt such frustration in your search for self.

You said one particular thing that I wanted to respond to:

“Where does it end? I can appreciate that the name that Exodus chose did depict a *journey*. But, even the Israelites did not wander in the desert forever, they eventually did reach the Promised Land.”

You mentioned that you have a pattern, and that this tends to just be a revolving door of sorts for you that you state is (in sum) relationship – program – celibacy – repression….

AM, it is not my place to tell you how to live your life or where your quest will lead. For me, I know that living my life as honestly and as genuinely as I could meant finding personal happiness. For me, that’s being a married (to another woman) christian woman who is a part of a reconciling congretation who is supportive of my faith beliefs and my family. For others, being genuine may have other meanings.

I never did try, although it was encouraged by family, to change…there was something internal in me that knew from my first female experience in college (with a minister’s daughter at that!) that this was me. Even though I had dated men for quite some time, it was the first time I finally knew what all the fuss was about.

There is only so long that one can continue to attempt the same things finding no fulfillment. I would humbly suggest that maybe if Living Waters sets you on the same pattern time after time, that you think on that for a bit to determine your course. Whether that means a different program, an individual therapist, working toward ex-gay, working toward accepting self as gay, or just letting life happen while you pursue it with vigor and your personal values.

Best of luck to you.

I don’t know of such a place, but it would be nice if it existed.

Jag,

Make sure you let me know where this is because I want to come too.

I just wanted to thank the two of you for your thoughts and opinions on the subject of the label “ex-gay.” why you may or may not apply it to yourself and what it means to each of you. Thank you for sharing that.

After reading both of your comments, it made me think of how much we all have in common. We all question the labels we are given for where we are, whether we choose to embrace or reject them. We see the inconsistencies even *within* groups of those labels. One “ex-gay” should not be assumed to be the same as another – as one gay or lesbian person should not be assumed to be the same as another. Yet we hear this mistake repeatedly for both…and it stigmatizes us all.

So often we are placed into separate “camps,” but in the end it seems the married “lesbian” woman has more in common with her “ex-gay” peers than one could imagine…I’d argue that we often share a more similar value system, set of experiences, perspectives, etc…than many you or I might be lumped with by the “titles” others may give us regarding our sexuality- or we may give ourselves.

Getting to my point – It adds to the notion of how falsely constructed these labels are, and how false these “camps” are.

I truly wish, after having this conversation with both of you, that there were some real ways of bridging those gaps that exist that tend to separate us. For example, I’d love to attend a church where we could worship side-by-side…but may ex-gays attend a conservative church where I am not welcomed, and truthfully I may attend a gay-friendly reconciling church where ex-gays may not feel as comfortable either. Odd how that is.

Do you see that as a possibility, or do you think theological differences would prevent the camps from coming together, even to work together toward issues like housing or employment rights?

I really thought about and appreciated what you both had to say tremendously, and thought on it a great deal. The separation that exists seems more and more motivated to serve political ends, than to true human resolution and growth.

Are there such places where both groups meet and discuss without “debate,” but just for conversation, personal expansion, and possibly worship?

Just some thoughts rather than pointed questions – sorry for the novel.

But, reading the words above, leaves me with a reality check:

So, how do you live? Do you have sex? Are you alone? What is LIFE like for you? Not just the Internet.

Now, when I say “you”, I am speaking universally for any and all people who would relate to these “words”.

Maybe that is the biggest issue with this whole debate: take a ‘slice’ of someone’s life — maybe the time they spent in the Living Waters program and fast forward to today.

How many years does one wait to have a life? How many years does one suppress, repress, or shut down? How often does one “act out”? Or have a partner for a length of time?

Hmm…sounds like the concept of a study as to is it real? Does it work?

IOW I could go out, have a relationship for 5 years (for example), then go into a Living Waters program, remain celibate for the next five with suppression and repression which has been my MO and then go revolving door ad infinitum.

Where does it end? I can appreciate that the name that Exodus chose did depict a *journey*. But, even the Israelites did not wander in the desert forever, they eventually did reach the Promised Land.