I was never ex-gay. So if there is anyone who wonders why this movement inspires such passion in me, read Paul’s opening paragraph.

I’m not a super-religious guy. I’m not very holy and I don’t always live the way I think I should. I’m not one of those “good morning, praise God, isn’t this a great day the lord has made” kinda guys. My prayer is private, my devotions are quiet and I don’t wear my faith on my sleeve.

But it brings me to tears to see Christianity – and the ex-gay ministry in particular – drive people from God. It is this whole either-or dichotomy that is set up: this insistance that you cannot be gay and be a Christian. It permiates the language of the ex-gay movement. It is seeded in the media by ex-gay leaders.

And it leads to good decent people who want a relationship with God giving up, rejecting God, turning away, all because they feel that they have to. NO.. it’s because they are TOLD they have to – to please God they have to be other than the way he made them.

And I hate it. And it’s wrong.

Warren quotes the “through a glass darkly” scripture, which I held as a favorite before my swan song. The rest of the scripture, I think, being equally important to include…”now, these three remain, faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

Paul juxtaposes “faith, hope and love” ( Love being Jesus’ favorite command?) with what has today become two major fundamental Christian divisions. Those who (instead?) follow “knowledge” (strict bible literalists?), and those who are more esoteric and ‘follow’ “The Spirit” (represented by “prohpesy”). By the scripture, neither of these are complete or absolute “we know in part and we prophesy in part,” so the directive is to let faith, hope, and love dominate? Which begs the question, what is it to love. Yes, of course I’ve read the whole chapter, but love cannot be a particular standard carved in stone any more than any other “law” of God. How much more must love be “written on the fleshy tables of the heart?” Many believers claim to actually be able to follow God, an actual being. They speak of “relationship” with God/Jesus. Indeed, that would seem pretty important in order to know what “love” is at any given point. Is there really such a thing as a standard loving response in ‘true’ Christiandom?

As regards ssa, why don’t all true believers get together, like the apostles did when they were determining who would replace Judas, and just let God decide about ssa by “drawing lots?”

Very true. Stick to statments of “I believe.” Did you notice the period? And try to avoid statments that start “I believe you should believe…”

That’s why I object so strongly when someone categorically declares: “God says” so and so — as though their effort, and ONLY their effort, had resulted in THE correct answer. That seems to be the dangerous mindset of extremism.

Since we are human and capable of error, don’t we all have to admit that we MAY be wrong? Wouldn’t it be better to say “I BELIEVE God says” so and so — since each person (each with an equally sincere desire to follow the will of God) may arrive at a different conclusion?

It seems to me, that since we do indeed “see through a glass darkly” (and are therefore limited by our own experiences and prejudices) that we should extend to each other just a little bit of grace — and try to be just a little bit more humble. What’s wrong with saying, “I believe”?

From a practical perspective I’d have to say that the only two groups of Christianity that have a solid meter stick for measure relevant teachings are the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

As for Protestantism, it seems like you can pretty much just pick a church that fits your needs instead of having it be the other way around. There are some 20,000 different Protestant denominations out there, right – each having different takes on Scripture and teaching!

I’m not trying to say one is better than the other, but those first two have clearly defined was of measuring importance and relevancy.

I would put it in there between 4 and 5

Though this will not be the dominant belief at this site, I have a heirarchy of what I believe about the “rules”. Basically, it works like this – if there is a disagreement between rules, the one that wins in the one that is higher on the following list:

1. The two commandments of Christ

2. The ten commandments of God

3. The teachings of Jesus

4. The theme and message of the gospel

5. The teachings of those apostles that knew Jesus when he walked the earth

6. The teachings of Paul and the other early church fathers

7. The collective wisdom of the old testament writers and the lessons in the stories

8. The Law of Moses

…

and somewhere after scribbles on the subway walls and the mumbling of the homeless:

286. People rebuking me on websites.

Personally, I have too much trouble with the first two to really get all worked up about number 8.